@Barkydog
ha ha ha
I don’t have a problem with shade tree mechanics . . . there is some slight overlap, but they’re basically not competing with me
When I do weekend sidejobs in my garage, I always prioritize
I tell my customers what should have the highest priority
High priority = water pump leaking badly
Low priority = valve cover gasket seeping
@db4690. No no. Don’t take it that way. I wasn’t saying I have a low opinion of you, or that I think you’re shady. I also wasn’t really talking about fraud, though I see how you got there b/c of the blinker fluid comment. We’re talking about different business models - maybe. Or just different semantics. So if I get a flat tire and take it to a shop and ask to have it fixed, and they do. I return and I pay them for the service. In technical language terms, the service was “sold” to me. But in this context, and in what I am saying is - no. It wasn’t “sold” to me. I made a purchasing decision.
And just because some things aren’t technically illegal or fraudulent, doesn’t mean they are right. So - that shop I mentioned with the double-desk? I don’t go there anymore. They expanded - total renovation, new buildings, more bays etc. etc. Must have cost them a fortune. The last time I was there - there it was - the big “NitroFill” sign with the stack of brochures on the counter. And the stack of BG chemicals and their brochures. etc. Well - yes. They have these big bills to pay now, but please don’t take that out on me. (These are not the only reasons I don’t go there though. I noticed that once they got big quality control and attention to task went downhill. They used to be craft. Now they are assembly line).
So…if I take a flat to the shop for a patch and rebalance and the “service writer” says “hey, for an extra $ XX we’ll refill that with nitrogen and let me tell you why that’s so much better…” Well, now I’m being “sold.” It’s not fraud. But it’s not right. And that’s what I’ve been talking about all along. In my eyes, a good shop makes money by meeting my needs. Not by twisting things around so that I meet their needs.
BTW: if you go way back to the beginning of this thread you’ll notice that I posted the devil’s advocate response - that this person’s interpretation of what went on at the dealership might not have been correct. In other words, I was posting possible reasons to defend the service writer. Perhaps s/he was being dishonest in order to “sell.” Perhaps not. I don’t know.
Well the OP is probably pretty torqued by now at how far his thread has been hijacked.
Technically, the term isn’t service writer or adviser anymore, it’s “service consultant.” As if to make it more palatable to the customer.
I’ll sell a bottle of this stuff to anyone who has $6.99 plus shipping.
@db4690 you clearly need some service adviser training. If you tell them the valve covers are only seeping they may never fix them. You should sell your customer the valve cover gaskets now and not mention the water pump. Then next month when the water pump goes they’ll have no choice but to do it and you’ll have gotten both jobs. OK, tongue-in-cheek there but that mentality is certainly out there and I think that’s why lots of folks here don’t like the auto service industry. But then the population here isn’t representative of the public in general.
@cigroller, I think the issue isn’t just who you talk to at the front counter or how much they know or even how honest they are, it’s that a single shop just can’t be all things to all customers. You clearly know far more about automotive service and repair than the guy next to you. And as such you try to be involved with every step of the process and remain in control. That’s fine, but as such you also seem to take up more time in the process than they guy who just wants his car fixed. You want to talk to the guy actually working on your car. Would you be willing to pay $1.50/minute for that conversation? Because that’s what his time is worth.
I’m not a harda__ like that, but I’ve worked for people that were. If you brought your car to me, of course we’ll take a minute or two to walk you into the shop and show you the loose spark plug spring that damaged the counterbalance bearing in the primary muffler. We’re just that much of a corner garage old fashioned place. Some places just can’t do that though.
Some people just aren’t a good match for some shops. Take the original post. A good many people can’t be bothered to call here, call there, make an appointment at a different shop to save $75 on a strut job. The time and effort that involves just isn’t worth it. Take away the hard feelings, bad taste, poor words, etc of the original example and the fact is the car needed struts and the driver went through a lot of effort to save little money.
I don’t mean to slam you at all, I take your thoughts quite seriously, and I enjoy a good conversation, so I wonder, do you rail with such vigor against all “upsells” from “service consultants?” The super size at McDonalds, the champagne/lobster package at the steak house, the 6-month cleaning from the dentist, the moss control treatment from the roofer?
@asemaster, LOL. No kidding. I’m laughing. Anytime I make it to the fast food counter or drive-thru and they greet me with the “suggestive sell” - “Hi, would you like to try one of our…” I always say something like “please tell the management that I don’t appreciate the suggesting selling.” I kid you not. So at least in my case - yes - I’m an equal opportunity “railer.” Some people these days call it a “prosumer” - a “proactive consumer.” It does sometimes annoy people, but I’m just watching out for myself and trying to help the markets operate!
On other things, I have also told shops that I literally just want to buy some extra time with a tech, if necessary. So will I pay $1.50/min for the conversation with the tech? Absolutely. I actually like to think that I’m lower maintenance than most. Its easy to explain things to me and I usually show up already knowing what I need. So I just drop it and go. If I feel a need to get tangled up in it, then I get what that means. As I said, I normally don’t end up needing to talk to a tech at all. When I do - I have no aversion to paying for it.
I will also say that one of the reasons that I do understand things in a way that would make me willingly pay just to talk to a tech is that there are plenty of pros on this board who help people understand that. So, e.g., @db4690 (and asemaster and ok4450 etc.) far from thinking badly about anyone I also appreciate the conversation.
@cigroller
We see eye to eye on the nitrogen
I think nitrogen should have no place in the general automotive industry
It might be appropriate for nascar, indycar, etc., but there are no real advantages to the average car driver, in my opinion
@db46990, if you keep it around in liquid form though, you can do fun tricks with bananas and tennis balls and stuff. And may be soak bearings so they’re easier to press in. (Ok - maybe not. Stick to the bananas).
@VDCdriver A couple of decades ago the teenage clerk at Radio Shack was unable to understand why I would decline a $30 extended warranty on a $15 microphone!!! How do they stay in business?
I have a couple of final comments. There’d be no problem if the service guy told me I had a blown shock and then explained why OEM was better than aftermarket. If he stopped there no problem.
Here’s my story of someone trying to scam me. Several years ago I was getting new tires at a Firestone dealer (they also did general automotive repair). While my car was in the shop the “service adviser” came back with a test tube of fluid and told be it was my brake fluid and something was wrong because it wasn’t the right color. Told me it needed to be replaced. I said I came in for tires and my brakes were fine. What are you doing messing with my brake fluid (I didn’t really believe it was my brake fluid)? Needless to say that was my last visit to Firestone.
IMO That’s the kind of selling no reputable shop would ever endorse.
BTW I had that car for 10 years and put 132k miles on it. Never had to have any work done involving brake fluid.
I have a couple of final comments. There'd be no problem if the service guy told me I had a blown shock and then explained why OEM was better than aftermarket. If he stopped there no problem.
If their product is so good…they why do they have to LIE? Lying from salesman for consumer products is EVERYWHERE. I don’t trust sales people. From the clerk at Best Buy to the service writer at the dealer…to the tire salesman at NTW. Lying is just second nature to many of them. Especially the ones that work on commission.
I think that we as consumers are to blame for part of it. Many just TRUST what the salesperson is telling them. My dad was ALWAYS skeptical. I got my skepticism from him. I DON’T TRUST the salesperson. Get as much information as you can about a product you’re about to buy (especially high priced items) BEFORE you talk with a salesperson. With the internet - it’s a lot easier to do. Information is so readily available…take advantage of it.
What I like is when you get stuff chcked and they top the brake fluid when you do the brake job the resivoir overflows,probaly not a good idea but when I see the brake fluid go down its generally time for new brakes(wife can go through em pretty quickly)-Kevin(people do fall for the nitrogen gimmick as evidenced by these green valve caps you see on cars/you do need N{Is N diatomic?} in the accumulators (hydraulic) on construction equipment,but not in Mr.Joe Averages automobiles tires,
@sgtrock21–Re: “Radio Shack…How do they stay in business?”
Things are not looking good for that chain, and some folks believe that they are going to fade away from lack of business. Back in the days of their TRS-80 computers, they did very well. Nowadays…not so much…
I’ve probably been more critical of service advisors/writers/consultants or whatever one would prefer to call them (some of what I’ve called them is unprintable here) than anyone on this board as I feel the vast majority have no business holding that position. In a perfect world, every one of them should have 10 years minimum of actually turning wrenches under their belts.
They’re what I usually call the disconnect between the mechanic and customer because the information chain between the 2 often gets prostituted by the service writer.
A service writer who tries to sell every fluid flush known to man on a 15k miles car is either a crook or woefully ignorant of automotive mechanicals.
A service writer who tries to sell ball joints on a car which has worn ball joints is legitimately and honestly doing what he is paid to do.
I see nothing wrong with a service writer bringing a customer into a shop to point out a problem although this should not be allowed to get out of hand due to time constraints or other legalities.
At times, I’ve seen this done and a few minutes turns into 20 or more or as in the case of one pair of customers; claims of injuries (which did not happen) due to an “air hose negligently running across the floor” and which cost the dealer several grand and a squared up repair bill to settle.
As to Radio Shack, about the only activity I see going on in there when I drop in for electronic parts (and those are scarce and overpriced at RS anymore) is people dinking around with cell phone batteries.
@VDCdriver Yes, the two in our area are closed and I don’t even know where to find one. There is just too much competition in this area.
Radio Shack has been up and down over the years. They seem to re-invent themselves when they are on the down-turn. 30 years ago they were mainly a electronic hobby store. They were a big supplier of Heath-Kits (decent quality audio systems you built yourself).
They might be able to change again into something more interesting. We’ll see.
@my2cents, I agree with the service advisor concerning your brake fluid. 10 years/132,000 miles is far too long to go without changing brake fluid. It should be done every 40,000 miles at least. Brake fluid absorbs water over time and that reduces braking efficiency. The water makes the fluid more compressible.
I do occasionally go to a Radio Shack if I need a real odd-ball battery that I can’t find at the supermarket or at Home Depot. When I go into the store, either I am the only customer, or I am one of only a couple of people browsing inside.
@my2cents … point taken. I myself believe I’ve been lied to by a service writer one time. A service manager told me a fuel pump relay hadn’t been replaced, when it clearly had. But I don’t claim to know that his statement was a lie for certain. The service manager in question may have been incorrectly told that by the tech who actually did the work, and was just repeating it as fact. Or the service manager may simply have not remembered correctly the complete sequence of events; i.e. that the relay had initially, been thought to be ok, but later replaced.
In your case maybe the service manager did in fact knowingly tell you something he knew was fals. But there could be another explanation, the service manager was mistaken, thinking of a different car, a different year maybe, in which that was the case. Or he may have been telling you that b/c his team had tried the aftermarket shocks several times on this make/model/year and had customers coming back with complaints. It could be argued he should then have explained that to you, that in fact he was recommending against using anything except OEM components for the shocks. You’ve got a point there, provided you are willing to pay extra for the extra time it takes for the equivocations and explanations. But asking service managers to only issue statements containing “universal truths” may be asking a little too much.
George
A service manager is pretty far removed from your car, so to speak
This is the chain . . .
The mechanic
The service writer
The service manager
Returning to the Radio Shack tangent, I think that this was inevitable…
http://www.northjersey.com/news/248353761_RadioShack_plans_to_close_up_to_1_100_US_stores.html
As I said…let’s wait and see. I wouldn’t be surprised if Radio Shack reinvented themselves yet again. They keep doing it. Companies that can adapt to the changing times is a company that can survive. They’ve proven they can adapt. We’ll just have to see.
2 years ago many analysis thought Best Buy would be out of business by this time. But they are now doing very well.