Shadowfox and others, I have always been accused of trusting people too much, but no longer in this case.
You are assuming that if the variation allowed is 5%, that it will even out. Sometimes you will get more gas and sometimes you will get less.
My bet is that the technology on the gas pumps leads to very good accuracy, much better than 5%.
So if the gas station is allowed a 5% error, my guess is that most gas stations will set the gas pump to show 1.00 gallons when .95 gallons are dispensed.
So in other words, they set it at the allowable error and pocket the profit.
So at those gas stations you will always lose 5% of your money.
One of the businesses I ran had a product that was 33.3% active. We allowed a relative 1% or 0.3% variation and this was specified to customers at 33.3%, +/- 0.3%. That seems very reasonable. Then we hired a plant manager that put in a simple technology to allow very accurate measurement. So unknowing to me, he instructed the workers to target 33.0% and they hit it every time. At the end of the year I applauded him for a $2 million positive variance, until I found out how he achieved it. Then I instructed him to target 33.3%. Not everyone would target the 33.3% and walk from $2 million.
With the volume gas stations do, turning 5% of your revenue instantly to profit is huge!
I suppose it depends where you are located, I imagine each state has its own regulations.
I was the manager or owner of a fairly busy gas station in Washington state from 2004 to 2016. In WA the gas dispensers are tested and certified every 3 years by the Department of Weights and Measures. We were allowed to have a variance of .01% either way at the dispensers. That’s a pretty tight tolerance, one you would never be able to discern by checking gas mileage. I can tell you personally that over the long run the discrepancy at the dispenser generally runs in the customer’s favor. Also fuel dispensing equipment is not temperature compensated so I doubt you would ever achieve 100% accuracy at the gas pump.
There was some underhanded activity several years ago where some gas station operators were fleecing their customers. They knew that almost all weights and measures testing was done in 5 and 10 gallon quantities. So they programmed their dispensers to be accurate at those measures but to be a few pennies short at all other amounts.
Reminds me of an incident back when gas was close to $5/gallon in WA. A woman was complaining to my cashier that our gas pumps were off because she just put 17 gallons in her car that only had a 16 gallon tank. As luck would have it the tech from Weights and Measures was there that day inspecting my dispensers. I showed her the tag on the pump dated that very day certifying accuracy. In fact he was still there checking pumps at the other island. I asked him for the report on pump #3 and he showed her that that dispenser was actually off by 3 cubic inches on a 5 gallon test–in her favor.
I now live in a small town in Oregon, where state regulations prohibit motorists from dispensing their own gas in most cases. Now every time I get gas I marvel at all the time and money wasted by such nonsense.
Yeah I agree with @asemaster There is no way the tolerance is 5%, at least in Minnesota. I’m not going to look it up but a guy that worked for me went to work for Weights and Measures for a while and the tolerance for variation at the pumps was pretty exact. Look for the little sticker on the pump that says it was certified and when.
Do you realize your entire argument is built on a bet and a guess?
Whitey, you need to read my original comment and not take words out of context.
I wrote here asking expert opinion.
Unlike some people, I do not claim to be an expert and when something may not be fact, I will state it as such.
Nothing wrong with being totally honest.
"I now live in a small town in Oregon, where state regulations prohibit motorists from dispensing their own gas in most cases. Now every time I get gas I marvel at all the time and money wasted by such nonsense."
Current average gasoline prices in Washington are $3.410/Oregon $3.229. I marvel that someone would prefer paying more for the “privilege” of pumping their own.
How much of that price disparity is because of state and local taxes, and how much can be explained by the difference between DIY and attendant-only refueling?
Washington taxes are higher. Oregon has zero refineries so transportation cost of fuel is higher. I have been owner/operator of 3 “full” service stations in the late 1970s. I had full and part time employees. Wages alone are quite costly. Social Security, Unemployment insurance, and disability insurance are additional. I have no logical explanation how gas can be sold in Oregon for less than Washington. The only thing I know for sure is that I have pumped more than enough gas and appreciate it being done for me at a reasonable price.
We have one full service station in town at the farm store and I’ll see folks drive in when I’m there getting kerosene. No big ax to grind either way, but the customers always have to wait longer for the attendant to pump their gas, take their money, back inside to process the payment, and outside again to service the next car. Great for people that can’t get out to pump their gas or don’t know how, but surely it is a lot faster to get out and pump your own with a debit card and on your way again in a few minutes. Plus, I don’t like other people touching my car and seems silly for me to stand there waiting while someone else does something that I could do just as well and faster.
My “full” service stations involved more than the required pumping gas. We washed windshields and asked the customer if they wanted the oil level and tire pressure checked. The 48 states with self serve have you conditioned to do everything yourselves. I have no real problem with that as long as you don’t mind exiting your warm and dry vehicle when the rain, sleet, or snow is blowing horizontal. I will gladly pay the 2 or 3 cents per gallon to avoid that.
That would just add to the wait time. Of course I fill up at 1/2 tank but I barely have time to empty the trash before the pump kicks off again. No time to check the oil, clean the windshield or check the tires without people waiting in line getting a little upset. I’d rather do this in my garage anyway.
NJ raised its gasoline tax a few months ago, and despite both that tax increase and the need to pay attendants, “full service” gas in NJ is almost always cheaper than gas in neighboring states, where “pump your own” is the order of the day.
2 or 3 cents??? The difference between self-serve and full-service has generally been 20-30 cents a gallon, from the time I got my first job at a corner Chevron station in the 80’s to the time I sold off my own place in 2016.
I was a Shell station, all self-serve, and there was a Shell about 2 miles away, still had one self-serve island and one full-serve. Last I checked, his regular full was over 30 cents/gallon more than my self. I honestly don’t know of any full service gas stations where I live now, but it’s not a very big town.
As to the retail price of gas, WA has among the highest gasoline tax in the country. It’s a good 30 cents a gallon more than OR. So by that basis alone gas should be $3.11 here in OR instead of $3.22.
And let’s look at the labor cost of selling a gallon of fuel. In WA I had 2 gas islands with a total of 12 fueling positions. That was all under the charge of a single cashier from 6AM to 11PM. Propane sales were also the cashier’s duty, although I would often send a guy from the shop to do that. For the graveyard shift I ran the pumps debit/credit only with no one on site. Here I see a store with a cashier inside and 1 or 2 attendants at the pumps whenever the station is open. You’ve got 3 people doing what other stations accomplish with one. I have to think that reducing the labor costs by half or more would result in a lower price for me filling my tank. Not to mention that it simply takes longer to have an attendant fill my tank than doing it myself.
The way I see it, having the station pump my gas costs me money and costs me time. Neither of which I’m interested in.
By the way, I’ve only been in OR 2 1/2 years, any idea where and why the no pumping your own gas regulation came from?
Ever get gas at a Costco? They purposefully have no paper towels or windshield cleaning devices there like normal gas stations do. They want you in and out as quickly as possible. And it still takes too long for me to buy gas there.
Oregon has zero refineries and must import our petroleum fuels. My neighboring states are Washington, Idaho, Nevada, and California. All self service. WA with 1 refinery is higher due to taxes. ID and NV are slightly lower due to 2 each refineries. California has many refineries but much more expensive fuel due to taxes upon taxes upon taxes…
[quote=“asemaster, post:54, topic:128954”]
By the way, I’ve only been in OR 2 1/2 years, any idea where and why the no pumping your own gas regulation came from?
[/quote] Requested by the State Fire Marshall and passed as law by the State Legislature in 1951.
I have no major problem pumping my own gas in 48 states. I recall a station in Texas that charged .30 per gallon extra to pump your gas when it was .90 per gallon. Since 2016 if you live in a less than 40,000 population county in Oregon you can pump your own gas. Maybe your county qualifies and you can happily pump your own in sideways rain, sleet, and snow. I travelled with my parents as an under 15 year old non-driver in many states and don’t recall my Father or Mother or myself ever pumping gas. Or washing a windshield.
I wonder what the reasoning was.
Nah, I live in Eugene, not much sleet and snow here. Perhaps I inadvertently misled you about the size of the town. But having grown up in Los Angeles and then spending 25 years in Seattle/Tacoma, Eugene is a small place.
I’m 49 years old and I remember, as a kid, Dad pulling into the Exxon station at the end of the street and having someone clean the windshield and check the oil. I think Mom still has 3 or 4 of the glasses the station gave out for filling up with Exxon Exxtra. But by the mid 70’s I think most places had gone to self service.
Back when I was a kid, on that corner we had an Exxon, a Texaco, a 76, and a Mobil station. Each with gas pumps and a garage. Now there’s a Del Taco, a Hawaiian restaurant, a used car dealer, and a strip mall.
I have no real problem checking my oil level and tire pressure when the weather is nice, you know, before a trip, when you’re supposed to check those things.
I’m sorry I got distracted and forgot to reply. I live in a small town in Polk County across the Willamette River from the very South end of Salem. We normally have mild Winters compared to many other places in the USA but can still occasionally have blowing rain, sleet. snow, and freezing rain. I don’t mind sitting in my car and having someone pump the gas, Having been owner operator of 3 service stations and worked at stations as a teenager I figure I have pumped enough gas. I really don’t mind pumping gas in other states as I certainly know how to do it. A bit of humor. In the mid 1990s I made an official trip to Boise, Idaho to visit my counterpart at the Army Aviation Support Facility Gowen Field. I had just crossed the border and decided to refuel. I pulled into a station with no other customers. I waited and could see someone walking around inside. It suddenly dawned on me I was in Idaho! I used my government travel card, filled up and went on my way. It seems most of the service station’s garages have been replaced with convenience stores. No doubt more profitable. There is still one left in my area but we are still semi rural.