Code p0017 dealership is clueless

Maintenance/Repairs
1

Continuing the discussion from Misfire, loss of brakes, and code P0017:

Hi everyone, hoping to get some more advice (see my previous post above)
A quick summary
kia rio 2013
125,000 miles
Regular oil changes for the most part, bought the car 6 years ago around 65,000 miles.

My car stalled and I got the code p0017. Took it to the closest mechanic and they replaced the crankshaft sensor, that didn’t work and they suggest I take it to the dealership to look at the timing (this is a big box garage, they mostly do basic things like oil changes, brakes, etc)

So I had it towed to the dealer, they’re convinced its the camshaft sensor, so I give them the okay to replace it. They call me back and say it worked so I give them the okay to fix my brake lines that were bad (~$1000).

Then they call me back and say the engine isn’t stalling anymore but the code p0017 is back. They say they need to replace the crankshaft sensor now, the one the first mechanic replaced because it is aftermarket and that should fix the issue.

Well they replace it and tell me it worked. I pay $1800 for everything and then after less than five minutes of driving the car doesn’t feel right, like it is about to stall and the check engine light comes back on. Also the break pedal feels like its going all the way to the floor before the car stops, which is worse condition than I brought it in with.

Im so frustrated. I take it back and they say they’re gonna look at again. I saw online that a dirty VVT solenoid can cause the p0017 code so I asked them to check that.

Is there anything else I can ask them to check? What is the test called where they look at the crankshaft and camshaft timing? I’ve seen online some machine you plug into the car and get a graph of the timing so you can see if the timing is off.

Any other suggestions? obviously I’m not a mechanic, but this forum has been really helpful.
Thanks guys!

2

What causes the P0017 code?

**The valve timing is out of position from a timing chain jumped out of position.**

There are oil flow problems to the phaser from incorrect oil viscosity or partly clogged passages.

The oil control valve (OCV) has a restriction in the OCV filter.

There is an exhaust timing gear problem with phaser causing camshaft misalignment.

Tester

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And it came back right away. Take it back to the dealer. Be firm, tell them that your $1800 did not fix it and that they should waive any diagnostic fees and find the real problem. Tester’s list shows what it might be.

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I took it back right away. Its actually been there for a month, so I was surprised they hadn’t figured out the problem by now. They told me they weren’t going to charge me to look at again. Now they’re telling me the technician thinks its a timing issue and they need to do more tests. I don’t think they ran any tests before this and just threw the sensors in hoping that would make the problem go away.

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5

I agree completely. Very perceptive of you!

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6

The cause for that might just be that the engine had already stalled, even though the car continued to roll a bit on its momentum. There’s a gadget in the engine compartment called the “brake booster” that provides assistance to the driver, so they don’t have to press so hard on the brake pedal. But that gadget only does its job when the engine is running. Suggest to focus on getting the engine running properly, b/c the brake problem might get solved automatically.

As far as the p0017 code, I’m guessing that’s caused by a stuck variable valve timing actuator. The variable valve timing function adjusts the valve timing w/respect to the crankshaft timing as the rpm increases, done mostly to improve engine power and fuel economy. A sticking VVT actuator is not an uncommon problem by reports here. You can use the forum search feature to see some of those prior posts if you like, link upper right this page.

I have no VVT diagnostic experiment myself, but I expect it is fairly simple task using a pro-level scan tool, which your dealership almost certainly has. What is their explanation for it taking a month and still no repair in sight?

Once you get this fixed and car back on the road, suggest to error on the side of replacing engine oil and filter more frequently rather than less frequently. The VVT function is very sensitive to engine oil level & cleanliness. I’m guessing the ultimate solution will be that your VVT actuator will be replaced, and that will solve the p0017 problem. Keeping the oil in good shape should help prevent a repeat. On my older vehicles, I change the oil and filter based on oil appearance. It starts out after a change looking sort of a pale yellow and clear, then after a 1000 miles or so starts getting some brown tones, then darker brown, then black. I change it before it gets black, usually around 5,000 miles.

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The color of engine oil is not an indicator of the condition of the oil. Many factors cause the engine oil to turn black.

https://knowhow.napaonline.com/engine-oil-turns-black-dont-panic/

Follow the manufacturer’s recommend oil change interval, or if the car is equipped with an oil service indicator, use that.

Tester

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“Regular oil changes for the most part”. Whatever that means, but there comes a point where it is not worth putting more money into it.

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Yes I know and it means that there has been one or two times where I went over the recommended oil change schedule but for the most part its been changed on time on a regular basis.

10

Thank you, that was very helpful, i’ll look into the other posts about the VVT actuator. The reason its been there for a month was because they had to order the camshaft sensor and apparently that took a couple weeks to come in. The receptionist called and told me the technician thinks its a timing issue. I asked if they checked the VVT solenoid and she said “yes they checked everything” and that they will do more test tomorrow. She also said they hear a knocking sound so I feel like they are going to say its my timing chain, but i listened to the engine carefully for knocking sounds before having it towed there originally because i had read about loose timing chains and i didnt hear anything. So I hope i find out more tomorrow.

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Again following the recommended oil changes doesn’t tell if it was changed every 3,000 miles, 5000 miles, 7000 miles or even 10,000 miles. They can all be recommended now.

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Find a better shop . . . the dealership is NOT the one that’s going to fix the problem

Whoever worked on it did not adhere to the concept of “verify the repair” before telling the customer the car is fixed

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Yep, I wish I would have verified myself before paying the $1800.

14

I would never go back to this dealer; sounds like amateur mechanics. $1,000 to replace brake lines…that is plain old robbery. I hope that was a 100% replacement front to back and both sides and not just the flexible parts in the wheel wells.

If the car stops running without warning, no hesitation, etc., then it’s likely the computer shut it down because some sensor gave it WTH information; either true or bogus from a bad sensor.

Crankshaft and Camshaft position sensors and the MAP sensor can signal the computer to open the ASD relay and kill the engine without warning.

Cheap, Chinese “replacement parts” can be bad/flaky right out of the box. Go with OEM or a reputable supplier of OEM in the aftermarket…avoid the “cheapest” price parts…they will haunt you…don’t ask me how I know.

I was watching a YouTube video of a car that would not start…1st mechanic installed a Bosch Crank Sensor…car still wouldn’t start; they gave up. Second shop installed another Bosch CS…car would not start and everything pointed to a bad Crank sensor…long story short, TWO out of the box “brand new” bad Crank Sensors.

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15

I don’t understand why they’d give up. If new sensor didn’t do the trick, first check if new sensor is properly powered; next, if the new sensor results in spark at spark plug during cranking. If not, does the new sensor output a string of electrical pulses going to the ECM during cranking? I guess it is possible they did all that stuff, then gave up. But just giving up after replacing the part? That seems like a bad work methodology.

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The reason to NOT go back is because they didn’t bother verifying the repair before upselling additional work to the customer

Don’t ever call the customer to tell them the car’s ready until you’ve verified the repair and made sure you’ve successfully fixed what the customer brought the car to the shop in the first place

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17

Yeah the break lines were a total replacement. They replaced the camshaft and crankshaft sensors with genuine kia parts and its still giving the p0017 code. They were suppose to call me back today but never did, i tried calling and it went straight to voicemail, so im still not sure what the problem is.

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Yeah I think they did this because i explicitly told them on the phone that I was not going to approve the brake work until the engine issue was solved. So they “solve” the engine issue and still profit from all the brake work… Maybe not but im really pessimistic about this whole situation now.

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19

I expect they are continuing to work on figuring out what’s causing the problem, but as of now they just don’t know. If I were a customer I’d prefer the shop staff phoned me back and just say they haven’t figured it out yet, and are continuing to work on it. But maybe there are practical reasons they don’t want to do that.

I went to a nationwide auto parts store the other day.

Me: I need an xyz with part number 645564646.
Staff: “Ok, let me look that up.” Starts typing on computer, typing quickly interrupted by “ringgggg”. Answers phone, “Hi , how’s it going? Yeah, it is really fun to talk with you on the phone , are you just calling to say hi? It’s ok, I want to hear all about your day!”
Me: sigh … lol …

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20

This might help. Turn on CC as this guys English is not easy to understand. There also may be tone rings on the camshafts and one of them may have slipped.