$3000 for replacing a cylinder head seal? It seems like when a job involving the engine is priced at $3000 or more, and it is mostly the labor, wouldn’t it make more sense just to haul the engine crane out & remove the engine from the vehicle, and do the job on the engine stand?
A 2020 GMC Acadia AWD 3.6L timing chain pays 20 hours to replace, both head gaskets pay 25.8 hours to replace… So yeah with todays vehicles $3000 could be cheap…
A 1985 Jag pays 30 hours to replace an oil pump…
So the cost all depends on what part is being replaced and how hard it is to get to, When you are paying to have the work done…
1 Like
I don’t think the job mentioned in the column requires removing the cylinder head. Only the timing cover has to be removed, same as has to be removed to replace the timing belt.
You didn’t post the vehicle info or what part was replaced, I was just talking in general and just pulled a vehicle out of thin air for a price reference…
I only hang around the community part of the forum, so I have no idea what was said in what ever the column was talking about, sorry…
If you want to read the column, click top-left where it says “Car Talk” on this page. You’ll see an article title “What the heck is a cam carrier?”
On a 2017 Subaru Outback 2.5L the cam cover (carrier) labor
CAMSHAFT HOUSING GASKET - R&R
| Application | Labor | Wty | Skill |
|---|---|---|---|
| Operation | |||
| 2.5L Eng Carrier,Both Sides,All | 17.4 | 0.0 | B |
| 2.5L Eng Carrier,Left Side | 15.7 | 0.0 | B |
| 2.5L Eng Carrier,Right Side | 15.9 | 0.0 | B |
Do you happen to know the same sort of info for timing belt replacement?
And for engine removal/replacement?
All I need is all the correct info… I will be glad to look…
Cam carrier replacement for the Subaru is an engine-out repair, is it not? Lots of hours to drop and replace the engine. Same for head gaskets on a Subie.
There are lots of cars that inflict loads of pain for minor repairs.
2 Likes
You are correct sir, and the GMC Acadia is a drop the engine out to do timing chains also, and they go bad a lot… lol
At the rate they are going now you might have to drop the engine just to replace the serp belt… lol
Dads 2004 Infinity I35, you have to remove the inner fender well to get to one stupid bolt just to replace the head light. It pays 1.5 hours… other than that one bolt, it is a 15-20 minute job including removing the battery… And then you know about the removing the entire front bumper on the GM’s for a head light replacement, that is just plain ridicules and NO reason for it other than a design engineer that has never turned a wrench is designing vehicles.
1 Like
I don’t know. Ray didn’t mention removing engine from vehicle is part of the cam-carrier job. I’m presuming the cam-carrier job doesn’t require the cylinder head be removed though. I guess one problem with the flat-engine design, with two cylinder heads, the cams aren’t located all in the same general location.
The camshaft carriers mount to the cylinder heads and support the camshafts. The repair is about 2 hours less than the labor required to replace the cylinder heads/gaskets. This engine has timing chains, no timing belt.
Camshaft carrier is shown in the purple box.
1 Like
Agree also for a lot of things other than cars. 
1 Like
Dealer around here is now $188/hour for labor @George_San_Jose1. You can figure the math.
Eh, after dealing with a rust-belt car engine drop, I decided to do 3.6 chains in the car. Not a bad job at all once you do one or two. I’ll never drop a 3.6 engine again to do chains.
3 Likes
Thanks for posting the diagram. It looks like the cam carrier just bolts to the top of the cylinder head, so it’s hard to understand why replacing it or its seal would take so much labor. I’m presuming the reason is b/c of the involvement w/the timing chain cover. There seems to be some dispute regarding the engine configuration, timing chain vs timing belt. A timing chain cover is considerably more difficult to remove/replace than a timing belt cover. I expect that’s the primary source of the confusion here.
Not disputing the math. The question is why this job takes so long to do. And if it takes 18 hours, would it make more sense to remove the engine before doing it?
I’m thinking the engine comes out.
2 Likes
The cylinder heads are between the frame rails, the engine must be removed.
One member used to promote the idea of retorqueing head bolts to prevent Subaru head gasket failure. The camshafts must be removed to access the head bolts, 18 hours of labor involved.
1 Like
Did you point that out? I expect the re-torqueing head bolts idea might be worth considering in some engine configurations, but not others. For example re-torqueing isn’t advised if the head bolt is a torque to yield version.
Try to explain that to someone who retired 25 years ago.