Car battery lasts only 3 years?

General Discussion
81

Yes, I agree if you have a history of batteries failing at the 5 year mark then it is not much difference if you swap out at 4. If I have a history of batteries lasting 10+ years but swap them at 3 (as some have proposed), then that is simply wasted money to me. It not really in the category of a delayed cost then since I have bought three batteries when I only really needed the one.

Those major repairs you mention not affecting overall cost/mile is true but that is money lost forever from my pocket I could have used elsewhere. This is the approach that saved me countless thousands over many of my friends and acquaintances that used a proactive approach and even paid someone else to do the work. Those thousands of dollars allowed me to do other things and save money at a time when it had a huge impact (early in life).

Everybody has their own risk tolerance level and I can respect thatā€¦

82

Never jump start a battery but if you must get it on a charger for at least 12 hours. Do not drive to charge a battery, it does not work that way, alternator ā€œtops offā€ a battery that is good conditionā€¦ Running a battery down to 9 or so volts a few times takes a couple years off its life. Keep terminals clean so their is no strain on alt. All DC connections must be tight, tight or tighter than AC. A vehicle that is not driven much should have a battery charge once a week. Tie battery down as vibration or hitting bumps is hard on a battery. A battery load tester is a great instrument to own. It will tell you how many volts AND if the battery is well enough to actually function with a load such as the starter. Batteries will read 12-13 volts but that means little because it must have amperage. Voltage should be 14-15 volts with engine running.
My last battery lived 7 years.
AND notice I said NEVER jump start unless you have toā€¦draining a battery by leaving lights on is hard on batteries but I said if you have to jump then JUMP itā€¦ someone took exception to my comment. Jump it and then charge it ASAP with a charger.

83

For me, there were two precise reasons I started what you call pre-emptive repairs.

First, I expected to leave McAllen in the morning, and the next afternoon be roughly 1500 miles away, then visit family forf a few days, and cover those 1500 miles going home in two days. Without talking to cops, or sitting somewhere waiting for a tow truck, and not sure where to get the repairs done.

In other words, I wanted as close to 100% reliability as I could get it. The military wants the same 100% reliability or as close as they can get. It may cost more, though that is an intuitive opinion. Which means I am sort of guessing about the increased cost.

But, I am willing to pay for as close to 100% reliability as I can get. And, I donā€™t think it costs that much more. Of course, this all assumes you have a general idea when parts are going to likely start to fail. The military spends a fortune on studies to know when parts must be replaced for 100% reliabillty. I have to guess or rely on experts.

For example an engine rebuilder in the Snow Zone told me that he sometimes got Toyotas with damaged heads from failed thermostats at around 140,000 miles. A new Toyota head will pay for a lot of thermostats replaced proactively. I replace thermostats at around 100,000 miles. I do not tolerate much risk, and I do this though I am aware that most Toyota thermostats may well run a million miles for all I know.

The second reason I repair before it fails is I am a long ways from a Toyota dealer, about 2 hours. When I still had the 2002 I was able to do all repairs back in McAllen, except the bad battery (2 years.)

People who mostly drive close to home will not need to replace before failure, if they donā€™t want.

I donā€™t want to get too far into anything political. But, my idea of the freedom we talk so much about in the US isnā€™t just freedom of speech and freedom or religion. It is also the right to either go for pre-emptive replacment or wait until it fails. Without being bullied or punished by the government. Ditto for how often you change the oil. As long as it is your nickel.

The only reason I even mention it is because it seems to be traditional to wait until things fail. So, people who would perhaps actually prefer high-rel may have never heard of it until I write about it.

84

Correct! In addition to the military, which needs ā€œmission availabilityā€, industry wants very high availability at full production capacity. The programs I teach and consult on give process plants such as refineries virtually 100% ā€œuptimeā€ between major overhauls very 3-5 years. These major overhauls last 2-4 weeks depending on the complexity of the plants.

Such availability requires redundancy in a number of areas, such as compressors and pumps. If one fails, the other spare one can be brought on line quickly,

Electric utilities have what we call ā€œspinning reserveā€ which is additional equipment that can supply power quickly if one major unit fails. This is called ā€œN+1 sparingā€ in the industry vernacular. Your carā€™s spare tire is a good example. Before the Alaska highway was paved, authorities recommended motorists carry TWO spare tires and extra sealed beam head lights, among things before venturing to go there. Hyundai and some others are trying to do away with the spare tire, a foolish move in my opinion. They will sell you a spare and jack for about $300 EXTRA on those models.

It all comes down to the cost of downtime and how much value you attach to that. I used to carry a spare fan belt and power steering belt on vacation.

85

Just to be clear, I am not a big fan of big government. But I also realize that if people are left to make certain decisions, they may not choose the ones that are in everyone elseā€™s interest. Take for example the arguments being put forth in other threads about mandating seatbelts and motorcycle helmets. It makes sense to use them, why do we need laws? The argument put forth is it that it takes a lot of public money to care for the injured. Why are resources treated differently? They arenā€™t. Take water for example. Many municipalities place restrictions on water usage, even from private wells. Why? to protect the resource when itā€™s in short supply. If we simply raise the price to discourage waste, then only the rich will be using more than their fair share because it doesnā€™t affect them as much. Hey itā€™s on your nickle, why should anyone care if you change your oil every day if you can afford it?

86

Part of the issue is that there is virtually nothing that canā€™t be justified by determined bureaucrats saying it is in the public good. We have watering restrictions but we have water everywhere-lakes, rivers, high aquifer. No water shortage here. But the reason is they donā€™t want to expand the pumping capacity as usage grows. So itā€™s an administrative decision not a resource decision. In other words water rationing. The folks in government are just like everyone else-they want to grow their business and sphere of influence and believe they are doing it for the benefit of the world. Like a jungle itā€™ll just continue to grow and choke everything else out unless cutback once in a while and sometimes a forest fire is the best way to clear the brush for new growth.

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87

Not because itā€™s DC, because itā€™s low voltage & high current (12V vs 120/240V); sensitive to small voltage drops.

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88

Let me translate TTā€™s posting. We can only be saved by big government. Sorry, TT, but that is a correct translation of your posting. Yet, even with all this big government the losers still do dangerous things and end up being taken care of by the taxpayers. Losers when you make them sit in car seats as babies, and canā€™t have fireworks because they might get an owie on their precious little fingers, when they become old enough hit the street and start killing each other. Young men are wired to take risks, and if there are none available, they make some. More theory that doesnā€™t work.

You worry about men without helmets or seatbelts, but our big financial problem is millions of people deliberately brought into the world with no one to support them but the taxpayers. Big government tells them that is the best form of family. I call them future convicts. Statistics support that. And, the costs of that anti-social behavior transcends relatively small costs of people running around without helmets or seat belts.

And, your concern about only the rich being able to waste, that is called class envy. There is no solution to rich privilege except a totalitarian government. No, thanks.

History shows big government can do very little right.

@Docnick Great posting! As always, my hero. This is the sort of thing I read years ago when deciding to go high-rel.

It all comes down to the cost of downtime and how much value you attach to that.

Exactly. Those who wait until a part on the car fails do not see big problems or costs as a result of that failure. That is because they know their own circumstances better than anyone, just as Docnick and I know our circumstances better than anyone.

@bing a few years ago, an elderly neighbor in McAllen, now deceased, told me that he had encountered a man walking across fields, and asked him why he was trespassing. He said there was a study into the possibility of running a large pipeline from the Mississippi River to the Rio Grande Valley, which is chronically short of water. The Mississippi is in places a mile across. It would take a pipeline hundreds of feet across to absorb all that water. Enough water for the entire dry part of the USA. And, spending the cost of a small war with a low or no return on investment would create large permanent returns.

It didnā€™t happen, but the wars didā€¦

89

Way back, Gov. Perpich, the one that pushed the development of the Mall of America, and also the Committee for Waste and Mismanagement in Government, used to say that some day our water would be like oil. He talked about piping water out of Lake Superior to places short of water. That was before asbestos was found in the water though and Iā€™m not so sure draining the lake was such a good idea. At any rate his thinking was about 20 years ahead of everyone else. He was called Governor Goofy but I liked the guy.

90

I agree there are always many facets to any situation. I also agree that some proactive pruning would be good to keep things in check. Good analogy! In the example you cited, it appears that they are not seeking to expand their influence or grow the business. If they were, they would go ahead with expanding the infrastructure. Seems more like a situation where the rate payers/voters wouldnā€™t approve of the increased infrastructure costs so they defaulted to conservation.

91

You know nothing about me but what you have gleaned from this forum with your own prejudiced eye.
I can assure you I have no reason to be envious of anyone regarding wealthā€¦

Where does it say in my post I have any concern at all in this regard? Again, you have distorted what was written by your own preconceived notions. Notice it says THE argument put forth, not MY argumentā€¦

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92

Please stop using Hollywood as your source for facts of ANY kind, especially science.

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93

I agree, donā€™t they do a can of fix-a-flat with a plug in air compressor instead of a jack and spare? Ridiculousā€¦

94

Thatā€™s all well and good, until itā€™s cold, dark, and you and your family are stuck in a parking lot somewhere. In such a case, Iā€™m accepting a jump and getting on my way the SECOND the engine cranks, alternator wear or not! MY car exists to serve me, not the other way around. If this means my alternator has to be replaced every decade or so, SO BE IT.

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95

Uh, asbestos is a ROCK. How does that work, exactly? Water doesnā€™t dissolve rocks, and if it did, dissolved asbestos canā€™t attach to your lungs.

96

Asbestos fibers from the mining operation tailings dumped into the lake. It took an electron microscope to find them. Same fibers youā€™d get off the old brake pads. The little fibers with hooks on them that latch onto your lungs and show up years later. Now its the contamination from the sea going vessels that dump their ballasts into the lake when being filled with iron ore. Fill up in the Mediterranean and dump the water in Lake Superior. Thatā€™s a big issue with not much of a resolution yet.

97

Thanks! In addition to having high reliability you have to also look at the total life cycle cost of something. Again, buying quality and repairing things with quality parts gives the best life cycle cost. Case in point:

  1. Fridge #1. Top line Frigidaire ($375) made by GM in 1970. Lasted until 1992 with only one $40 repair. Scrapped when defroster developed a short. Sold for $70 to movie prop supplier.
    Fridge #2. Maytag $900, 19 ft3. (originally Norge design) bought in 1992., still operating downstairs as a beer fridge.
    No repairs of any kind.
    Fridge #3. Sears Kenmore made by Whirlpool, also sold as Amana. 22 Ft3, $1400. Bought in 2007. No repairs so far.

Total life cycle cost so far $375+$900+$40+1400-$70=$2645, or $56.28 per year over 47 years. And we still have 2 good fridges. .

Iā€™m sure someone in Twisted Scalp, Tennessee will beat that figure by buying used appliances at cut rate prices and replacing them every 3 years or so. Not counting spoiled food. of course!

Iā€™m not against buying used items. Many people in our age range are downsizing and selling off quality household appliances that are only a few years old. A young couple would find great bargains there.

Back to cars; Avoiding breakdowns on the road, especially in the winter has always been one of our concerns. Way back in the late 60s our Dart blew its alternator on a freeway during a bitterly cold December day. An unpredictable event! We had a 2 week old baby with us and keeping the car warm was essential. Luckily we were close to a highway service center, and I walked the 1/2 mile to find the only mechanic on duty. Miraculously they had a Mopar alternator in stock and $ 55 later we were on our way. The car was able to limp in on the battery. and the engine did not overheat.

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98

When you get a cut in the tire no amount of stuff from a canister will re-inflate your tire. We live near mountain wilderness country and many of my friends have replaced their mini spare with a full size one.

99

Exactly. Not to mention some tire places charge extra to deal with the crap that Fix-a-flat leaves behindā€¦That would probably be a deal breaker for meā€¦and a $300 charge is highway robbery for something that should be included automaticallyā€¦

100

Extreme climates would include not just heat as in Arizona but cold such as Gunnison Colorado. I am told batteries fail quickly there. I live an hour away in low elevations but hunting trips revealed after sunset a warm day went to frigid temps quickly around that area.