I have a driveway that, in the winter, you really can’t get a car out of it without either tons of salt and sand, or second gear start.
I just bought a 2002 Pontiac Bonneville to replace an older car that failed. The older car had second gear start, and was able to easily get out of that driveway. I am not so sure about the Pontiac.
The dealer told me that the Traction Control button was second gear start. But other sources have told me conflicting things:
1. Traction Control uses the brakes to stop wheels from spinning (after the wheel already spins and slicks up the ice).
2. Traction Control retards the engine timing to reduce torque, but only after wheel spin is detected.
3. Traction Control retards the engine timing and shifts the transmission to second gear, but only after wheel spin is detected.
4. Adding Second Gear Start is as simple as adding a switch, an LED, and some wire. There is already a place to connect them.
5. Second Gear Start was discontinued after 1996.
6. Second Gear Start is available on a 2008 Caprice.
I do know that I had to go out and buy salt and sand to get a friend’s car that used the braking method out of the driveway. His Traction Control would not get the car up the hill.
What does the owner’s manual say about this?
Second Gear Start is not mentioned at all.
It just says to leave Traction Control on in normal driving and in slippery conditions, but to turn it off if the car is stuck in mud or sand.
You should try better snow tires before you mess around with the transmission electronics.
Just because an '08 Impala came with SGS, doesn’t mean that your transmission is capable of surviving the abuse.
BC.
Better snow tires? The problem is not snow, but ice storms. They show up suddenly in this area, and I need to be at work dependably because I am a teacher. Tires really do not make a difference here. I just know that with SGS, I can get a car out of the driveway, but without it. I can’t without a long delay.
The Caprice (Impala?) has the upscale features package installed, but the same engine and transmission the Pontiac has. SGS was regarded as an accessory you had to pay extra to add, like power trunk locks. To add it, they installed the switch and light.
I would leave SGS switched off, except when faced with ice storms (as I did on the old car).
I read on one website that, because the Pontiac Bonneville was sold as more of a muscle car, they didn’t offer the SGS option, but that the computer still has the special connection pin for it. In other words, it was a marketing decision, not a matter of whether the transmission could handle it. They didn’t include a place on the instrument panel for the light because of this.
If SGS could be added, I was going to remove the idiot cell phone holder they provided (because nobody should be using a phone while driving), and put the switch and light there.
What I really need to know is:
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Is it as simple as adding the switch and light?
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What does the Traction Control really do? I can’t get two answers that agree. If it does certain things, I might not need the SGS.
Unfortunately, there is no way I can really test the capabilities of the traction control on my car until an ice storm actually happens (which won’t be until at least November now). So I am trying to gather as much info as I can now, so I will be ready when it happens.
The real problem is that the weather reports are never accurate about what we are going to get. They predict ice, and we get snow. They predict snow, and we get ice. And one time I shoveled 12 inches of “partly cloudy” off the driveway.
Snow tires are not good performers on ice.
A few more facts that affect the decision:
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Studded tires are illegal here.
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I can’t have more than one set of tires, because we have elitists in control of the zoning laws. It is illegal to store tires in the yard, and I have no interior place I can store them.
Winter tires are better on ice as well. Tire Rack’s web site has some videos of tests on this, if you want to track them down.
Some tire shops will store winter or summer tires for a reasonable fee.
Snow tires are not good performers on ice.
You’re right. That’s why you need WINTER tires which are superb on ice. The sole reason I bought my set of Blizzaks was for ice conditions where I live. And they perform exceptionally on ice. Night and day difference. The day I installed them I tested the old tires on my icy driveway. Could hardly drive up it and almost slid into the garage on the way back down. Winter tires installed and I couldn’t even get it to slide at twice the speed.
Quick question, do you have a “2” in your selector sequence and if you do, doesn’t it start off in 2nd?
1. Traction Control uses the brakes to stop wheels from spinning (after the wheel already spins and slicks up the ice).
Yes, traction control can do this
2. Traction Control retards the engine timing to reduce torque, but only after wheel spin is detected.
Yes, traction control can do this as well
3. Traction Control retards the engine timing and shifts the transmission to second gear, but only after wheel spin is detected.
Never heard of that happening
4. Adding Second Gear Start is as simple as adding a switch, an LED, and some wire. There is already a place to connect them.
It may be possible, but I don’t know if it’s that easy
5. Second Gear Start was discontinued after 1996.
I do not know
6. Second Gear Start is available on a 2008 Caprice.
There is no 2008 Caprice, production ended in 1996
Yes, I do, and no, it doesn’t. Like all GM cars, when in the 2 position, it starts in first and shifts to second, but not higher gears. If it had what you say, I would not have started this thread.
No 2008 Caprice? Then what is this car my friend has? Why is there an ad for it on the Internet, complete with second gear start? Do they both have the year wrong that much?
I conclude you want second gear start because you feel it helps with wheel spin. If this is not the reason you want second gear start please explain why you want second gear start. Is it not possible to modulate wheel spin through throttle application? I would search for a easier and different way to reduce wheel spin, there has to be more than one way.
I never found these “perhaps it works in a pinch” type features to be an absolute must,will not work any other way type feature, actually I view it as a carry over from the days where starting out in a gear other than first was just about the only other choice you had, and there was no guarantee choosing second gear would get you going,simply better than sitting there and saying “what am I going to do now”.
I don’t “feel” it helps. I know it helps. The difference is, if I forgot to turn second gear start on, I could not get the old car out of the driveway.
How it works is that the slippage occurs in the torque converter instead of at the road wheels. The change in gear ratio determines where the first slipping occurs. First gear slips the road wheels first.
There is a big difference between second gear start and traction control:
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Second gear start prevents slipping before it occurs.
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Traction control tries to stop slipping after it has started. Unfortunately, the slippage has already slicked up the ice by melting some if it, making the problem worse.
I have been through a good half dozen articles about GM 2nd gear starts and all that has been described so far is just a 1st gear lock out (which reduces the torque multiplication from being in first gear) I am not finding any info on a transfer of slippage to the transmission,do you have a link?
In short, the 2nd gear start helps because you are not in first, and when you are in first it is harder to control wheel spin. I am not finding any info on a transmission mod. other than a first gear lockout,let’s see what you have.
The Caprice went out of production in 1996
The Impala is still in production though. However no mention of a 2nd gear start is mentioned in the owner’s manual which can be viewed here
http://www.chevrolet.com/assets/pdf/owners/manuals/2011/2011_Impala_Owner_Manual.pdf
I had a '99 and a '01 Chevy S-10 and they both had 2nd gear start. If you put it in “2” it would start and remain in 2nd.
“I have been through a good half dozen articles about GM 2nd gear starts and all that has been described so far is just a 1st gear lock out (which reduces the torque multiplication from being in first gear) I am not finding any info on a transfer of slippage to the transmission,do you have a link?”
That’s WHY it works. The different gear ratio determines which slip point will slip first.
The first gear lockout is what I want.