Nope, difference between top and bottom is 100% or more:
There’s a HUGE difference between best and worst. Regarding the Buick, all of the same chassis GM vehicles report ‘much worse than average’ problem levels.
How much does it cost to fix? I realize that my own experience is a very small sample, but I’ve never paid much to repair my GM vehicles. I’ve spent about $1500 on my 2003 Silhouette and $2000 on the 1998 Buick. I’ll never know what I would have spent on repairs for a comparable Odyssey or Accord, but $150 a year on the Silhouette and $133 per year on the Regal are much better than the average repair costs for any car ever made.
I just looked up my previous minivan, a 2006 Chevrolet Uplander in the Consumer Reports. CR says it is a vehicle that has a much worse than average repair record. Yet, I had no problems with the Uplander in 65,000 miles and I sold it to my son. He now has about 110,000 on the Uplander and he has had no problems. I am more inclined to ask my independent mechanic who repairs all makes about potential problems. I did have to replace a front wheel hub bearing on the Uplander at about 62,000 miles, but I also had to replace a front wheel hub bearing on our 2003 Toyota 4Runner at 70,000 miles.
I know that there have been certain cars through the years that one should really avoid–the Renault Dauphine and LeCar, the Chevrolet Vega and the GM diesels of the late 1970s. However, I think things have improved for most cars since the mid 1990s. Consumer Reports compares the cars so that a below average frequency of repair today on a vehicle is probably far superior to a 1970s car with an above average frequency of repair.
Both are used cars and there’s no way of knowing which one would be better over the long haul because no one knows how they were driven and maintained. The phrase “well maintained” is often misused as the reality may not mesh with that phrase.
Assuming both are in the same condition, it’s a coin flip. You’re also wanting a car to last 10 years but that means diligent maintenance habits and those actually needed habits may not mesh with what the factory says they should be.
@jtsanders every single person I know that’s personally bought a car from the CR “used cars to avoid list” has had significant problems with it, usually within the first few years.
Some years ago, a colleague bought a certain brand new car. I had told him earlier that I didn’t think that was a good idea, as CR had predicted the reliability for that particular car would be pretty bad. Well, soon after buying it he said it was the worst POS he had ever owned.
I’m With Jtsanders And Triedaq On GM Vehicle Reliability And Low Cost To Own And Maintain.
I have subscribed to the CU publication CR for well over 4 decades (I pay 5 years at a time) and look at the car evaluation and survey information, but take it with a big grain of salt and some head shaking. The new car evaluations are helpful, but not so much with the survey generated reliability ratings. I use CR to help select coffee makers, treadmills, runner’s heart rate monitors, paint, dishwasher detergent, etcetera and it has usually paid off, but these things are actually lab tested, not surveyed.
If I had gone with CR recommendations then I would have missed owning some of the best vehicles on the planet. The reliability ratings have never matched with my car owning experience. I do other research before buying a vehicle and would not hesitate to purchase a car from their not recommended or cars to avoid list if it checks out and I have done this several times.
Speaking of planet, I sometimes wonder what planet their recommendations are coming from until I dig a little deeper. According to CR there is not much difference between a worse than average rating (3% or more report problems) in “Trouble Spot” areas and a better than average rating (Less than 2% report problems), that the worse than average rating doesn’t indicate that a vehicle is unreliable, but as has been pointed out in this discussion the little symbols magnify any differences and I’m sure help sell magazines to folks who don’t bother to read what the information really is saying. Look at the various items within each trouble spot area, too. Some things are significant and some aren’t.
When I read, right here on this site, the various unusual problems and common problems that people have with some highly regarded vehicles that aren’t GM, Im always stunned. I know the ratings come from surveys, but what the . . . ?
I have 6 GM cars in the driveway and one Chrysler. I do maintenance on the cars myself and there is not a lot of that to do. I generally keep the cars until the 250,000 to 350,000 mile range. I have four drivers in the family using them every day and we drive a ton of miles. I will still continue to choose GM cars.
CSA
I don’t follow CR too much either…mainly past experience and friends and relatives I trust. GM quality has improved over the years…especially since after 12 years they decided to fix their intake manifold problem. But I still won’t buy one. I’m not convinced they are all that reliable. It’ll take years before I’m convinced.
@db4690
Actually, I’m looking farther down the road where OP is now milking a 15 to 20 year old car. Those extra 5 years or so become more critical the older a car gets.
That ’ s also why, with respect to “texases” recent post, I would opt for a newer Honda. I am continually amazed when looking for a used car in a market where better deals pop up daily, some one one say, " I have narrowed my choices to these cars." You NEVER narrow your options if your desire is to get the best bang for the buck. The best deal could walk through the door on a trade in while you are negotiating with a salesman…
And, to further reinforce what " texases" presented, the charts from CR, if it is, represents problems per one hundred vehicles PER YEAR. So the probability over a 5 year period that you would have a problem is even greater then the chart might have you believe. Get a Newer Honda !
BTW… Anyone…, I need help. When using " farther" for physical distance and " further" for degree of time, in using the metaphor of distance for time, was it more correct to say “’ farther or further’ down the road” ?
Btw, I can be skeptical about CR’s opinions and ratings, but there is little room for skepticism in the chart texase showed when it’s just the results of a survey. It is what it is, and you either have confidence in the replys of the subscribrs to CR or not. Personally, I don’t feel there is much lieing going on when there is no money changing hands for these replies. As far as “using personal experience and friends and relatives” I can trust, when I ask enough, they seem to coincide with CR summaries much more often then not.
The Proof Is In The Pudding. I Keep Buying GM Cars And Keep Having Excellent Results.
I buy fairly new, low miles Certified Pre-Owned GM cars that come with excellent warranty coverage, but I don’t get to use the warranty because of the cars’ reliability.
My wife has had her’s over two years now. It’s an Impala that was just over a year old and had just under 11,000 miles on it. Being certified, GM extended the factory bumper-to-bumper 36 month / 36,000 mile warranty to 48 months / 48,000 miles and the car came with the balance of the factory 5 year / 100,000 miles drive train warranty, both time elements of the warranty run from the car’s original inservice date.
The car is now out of bumpere-to-bumper coverage (by miles), but still covered by the drive train warranty. Great warranty coverage for those afraid of GM cars, but for the same the reason GM gives such a generous warranty (reliability, not because they’re just nice guys), it’s not needed.
All this Asian car reliability myth and American car reliability paranoia causes Asian cars to be over-priced and cars like this Impala to be under-priced values. I had to do a bit of shopping and negotiating, but the Imapala was only $14,000 and went out-the-door for $15,000 (including 6% sales tax) with all the warranty coverage ! Not only that, but there are no Asian car dealers near where I live. They are over a 2 hour drive from here !
They don’t hold up for the long haul ? When my wife left with her Impala in the -5*F temperature this a.m. my daughter left for high school with the old 2001 Impala LS, 250,000 miles and the high school is 20 miles from here. She drives 40 to 100 miles every day. I bought car for my son to finish the last 2 years of college, but he went on to use it through grad school and 2 years in the working world. It was handed down to my daughter. I bought the car used for $4200. It is loaded too, comfortable and kind of sporty.
Oh, I forgot to mention that these larger cars get 30+ mpg the way we use them. Bonus.
Surveys, charts, horror stories ? Whatever floats your boat I guess. These cars float mine.
CSA
" But I still won’t buy one. I’m not convinced they are all that reliable. It’ll take years before I’m convinced. "
Mike, I don’t blame you one bit. That is smart. Once bitten, twice shy. Shame on GM. I was the same way.
We had GM cars that were inherited from in-laws when we were just married. I left GM for Chrysler cars and it took until just the past decade before I tried one again. My Chrysler cars were/are also very reliable, easy and inexpensive to maintain vheicles.
Fix It Again Tony finished me off and I’m down to one Chrysler in the fleet. It’s all GM, now.
CSA
CSA
"All this Asian car reliability myth and American car reliability paranoia causes Asian cars to be over-priced and cars like this Impala to be under-priced values."
I hear you…even the GM dealers are taken in by it…using Hondas and Toyotas as bench marks. Heck, GM even used Toyota for motors and entire cars (Saturn SUV, Matrix and past Geo/Nova/Corollas)
In breeding works for them in using the best parts for the money…why can’t we all be friends and sing kumbaya. BTW, some Asian cars are junk and some American cars/trucks are really good ! Especially when they use Asian parts and rebadging…just kidding…
Dagosa, I Kind Of Hate To Admit This, But I Owned One, Once. I Was The Proud Owner Of A GM Luv. Can You Say, "Isuzu ? "
Long story how I bought this truck with 100 miles on it when I worked at a Mazda/Volkswagen dealership. It was a thing of beauty. The economy of that little 4-banger was snuffed out by the 2-speed automatic transmission. 20 mpg and a seat that felt like I was sitting in a hole, a hard hole.
I drove that thing for years, out of financial necessity. I think that’s why my skeleton is in tough shape today.
CSA
CSA
A long connection with Isuzu that still goes on. The Duramax diesel in GM pick ups has long been considered a class act, is American made and a joint venture. It’s hard to separate car companies when they ALL use some of the same subcontractors. I was happy with my Chevy Novas and Geo Prisms too.
For years, GM owned a stake in Subaru which it sold to Toyota.
Mike, I don't blame you one bit. That is smart. Once bitten, twice shy. Shame on GM. I was the same way.
And you’re right…CCA…You’ve had great luck with GM…then by all means keep buying them. If I had your experience then I wouldn’t change either.
Dagosa, I Kind Of Hate To Admit This, But I Owned One, Once. I Was The Proud Owner Of A GM Luv. Can You Say, "Isuzu ? "
So did I… A 74 Mikado. Nice little truck…until the timing chain broke. Wasn’t a problem to repair…just getting parts was a pain…Dealer only and 4-6 weeks.
My family used to buy GM cars, but after about 4 I decided I wasn’t buying one when I got my own first car. After the Buick Century my mom had taking them to 5, we decided GM cars can be ok if you’re a mechanic and have a hobby of working on them. The parts are cheap, but after a few years you’re just replacing stuff every week. I’ve also been stranded 4 times by GM cars. I can’t say that’s the cars fault as I wasn’t in charge of the maintenance on those cars, but I’ve yet to be stranded in my Subarus. Oh, they need maintenance and have their own quirks - I’ve decided you’ll have some issue with any car - but across 3 of them I’ve driven regularly, they’ve never just broken down on me.
Finally for every GM car the family has had, none in my memory has made it past 150k before it was just time to let it die. We’ve bought Subarus starting at 160k and had them go till 240k before selling them to someone else!
Of course, the general rule is that when you’re at 160k or 9+ years old on a car, you’ll probably have to have it in the shop regularly, so to the OP, I doubt the Honda would be super reliable - but if you need a car to last many years and are thinking of spending $19K - isn’t there any new or 1 yr old certified pre-owned car in that pricerange?
Of course, the general rule is that when you're at 160k or 9+ years old on a car you'll probably have to have it in the shop regularly
Myself and others here have many examples of that NOT being true. One regular’s Honda finally needs to replace it after over 500k miles. I’ve had 4 cars well past 250k miles…2 past 400k miles…and they just needed PM and an occasional repair. My wifes 96 Accord’s first repair was at about 210k miles…for a total of $4. We gave it to our niece when she went away to college at 240k miles (still no repairs). She sold it when she graduated approaching 400k miles and just minor repairs (radiator and front axle).
" Of course, the general rule is that when you’re at 160k or 9+ years old on a car, you’ll probably have to have it in the shop regularly "
May Be True With Some Cars . . .
. . . I’m the guy with all the GM cars. This statement when applied to my experience with My GM cars is total Bovine Scatology. The Impala that I wrote about previously (look for it above), the one that I purchased for my son years ago and was handed down to my daughter who still drives it 40 to 100 miles every day was purchased with over 100,000 miles on the clock.
None of our 6 GM cars has every left anybody stranded, anywhere. We live in the middle of nowhere. It’s 20 miles to the nearest small town. The temperature today got up to 5*F for the high. It’s been snowing for 3 days (Lake Michigan Lake Effect). Would I, Could I Put all my family members in some POS that isn’t reliable ? Absolutely not.
CSA
Oh, Buy The Way, Perhaps You Can’t Tell, I Get Really Sick Of People Telling Me I Can’t Do What I’m Doing Every Day. Do What Ever You’d Like, But I’m Sticking With What I Know Works. My Next Car Will Definitely Be GM. I’ve Got My Sights On The 2014 Impala, Due Out Soon. Have You Seen It ?
CSA
CSA …I get really sick of people telling me I can’t do what I am doing, everyday
Boy, I would move…you must have some really tough neighbors. I know all of us here feel anyone should do what they want within the law. The last time I looked, buying GM car was well within the law. I want to get a new car cause all my electronic toys don’t hook up with my 8 and 9 year old cars…which still run well too. It’s a silly reason but it’s mine. If the new Impalas are they only cars that do, I will buy one too.