I’m glad you got it fixed and are safe again. We like to hear the fixes.
@knfenimore, well, potential fix… I still think there could be a chance that it is/was crud at the piston seals/dust caps. Since I did not replace those, if the problem does occur again in the next 6-12 months, I’ll post again to identify that this remededy did not work. If I don’t post to this again in about a year, then it seems like replaceing the hoses and fluid was an effective cure.
Well, it happened again 700 miles after replacing all 4 hoses and the fluid (two consecutive weekend trips up north). the front driver side caliper has partially seized up again and is running much hotter than the front passenger counter part causing a little bit of ‘strange feel’ or vibration in the steering wheel, though it can’t be totally seized since I was still getting 26.3mpg or better average the whole time. This time I managed to limp home by driving over the rumble strips or hitting potholes when I felt the the excess vibration on the steering wheel. I think the answer is going to be to bench the front caliper and do an over haul of the seals and dust caps. Luckily I don’t have any more long drives planned until Christmas, so, I think I can find a good weekend to get my hands dirty. Though I’m tempted to bring it back to the shop that diagnosed the problem as the hoses and see if I can get them to explain.
The only thing left is the propotioning valve. 2 lines go into it from the mc and then it voes to the front and rear brakes. The metal lines have no kinks?
well @knfenimore, I think it may come to that.
After putting a rebuilt caliper on the driver side front brake everything seemed fine for a while until I drove for about an hour on the highway this weekend and could feel the issue return. When I stopped, that same brake caliper was hot again.
Ugh. I guess this is what I get for having a 20 year old car. Ghosts that are hard to track down.
My only other thought was from this week’s car talk episode’s stump the chumps round where someone’s ABS/tractioncontrol system was acting up due to wear on the CV joint and causing a nuka-u-nuka-u-nuka 3 stooges noise. I guess I could believe that traction control might be causing that brake to activate on a constant, or almost-constant, basis due to a mis-read on wheel’s speed and produce very simlar symptoms. But at this point I’m mostly grasping at straws.
Thanks guys.
On a 20 year old car my money is on bad brake hoses. Due to age they are collapsing and not allowing the brake fluid to flow out of the caliper properly. Replace the flexible brake hoses up front and your calipers will probably work fine.
Any warranty on that rebuilt caliper? I’d say you got a dud.
Do you know the difference between the caliper slides and the caliper pins? The pads ride on the slides, usually called brake hardware. The pins are the the mounting bolts that bolt the caliper body to the caliper bracket. They have a long nose extending from a short threaded section next to the head. This is what the caliper actually floats on.
The new or reman calipers should come withe new pins, if not you may have a bent pin. It doesn’t take much to bind up a caliper. You also have to grease them with a silicone or synthetic high temperature grease or the grease will thicken and bind. You also have to clean out the hole in the caliper bracket that the caliper pin goes into.
You might even have a burr or other defect in the caliper bracket that is causing the problem.
@bloody_knuckles did that one month ago, probelm persisted. @insightful, there is a warantee and as the work was done just a few weeks ago I will definitely be taking it back to the same place to see what they can do under that warantee. However, I suspect that this may not be the issue. The caliper that they replaced was actually only about 2 years old, and I initially discounted it as the issue because it was relatively new. (put on as part of a pair when the passenger side caliper froze up a couple christmases back) The odds that I’ve had 2 calipers seize up and go bad on that same wheel in the last 2 years, and one of the other front wheel seems low, and makes me think that maybe there’s something else in the 20 year old car causing the issue. Either as @knfenimore suggests, some part more central to the brake system that’s gone bad, possobly corroding and allowing rust flakes to get into the lines/hoses and plug them up acting as a check valve, or as @keith suggests, some bent pin or other source of friction right at the brake. Or, as stump the chumps made me thing, something else entirely, like the traction control or a sensor causing the car to apply that brake constantly in error. When I take it in under warantee, I’ll defintely be asking them to trouble shoot a bit harder when they go in to replace that caliper (again).
A recap as this saga continues
May/2008: 60,000: Acquired the car.
June/2008: 65,000: Left Front Control Arm Assembly Volvo Part #8628495
… other work
June/2012: 88,500: Right Front Control Arm Assembly Volvo Part #8628496
Dec./2012: 92,445: Both Front Brake Calipers and Roters replaced after Passenger side sized up on long drive and wrecked the Roter. Shop notes state that the Right Outer Tie Rod Boot is deteriorated and to put a watch on it.
Aug/2014: 99,500: Driver side front caliper seized up. I cycled the piston, alleviated the problem and finished my 400 mile drive home.
Aug/2014: 99,995: Replaced all 4 Brake hoses.
Sept/2014: 100,500: Still felt some vibration at the wheel at speed. Same Aug 2014 shop said that Front driver side brake caliper was ‘totally seized’. Replaced Front Driver side brake Caliper
Oct/2014: 100,600: Still feel some vibration at wheel at speed. so I think I wasted $ on the caliper work, bring it back under warrantee, and left the car with them for a few days to drive and investigate. They can feel the same vibration on the freeway, but insist that the brake is behaving fine and recommend that the Left Control Arm and inner/Outer Tie Rods be replaced instead.
I don’t think I want to sink $650 into the Left Control Arm and tie rods to have them fix this intermittent vibration only to have that right tie rod go bad on the other side . I think the shocks on the car might still be original, but I’m not sure. I think maybe I should just go online and order front shocks, both control arms etc and rent a DIY shop for a day for $150 and have an adventure trying to install them myself. The videos from FCP on youtube make it look a little tricky, compressing the springs but nothing seems all that hard, is this possible?
What would you recommend for a 20 year old car?
“What would you recommend for a 20 year old car?”
Sell it. Seriously.
Either its time for another vehicle or another mechanic. Your control arms are two years old and the mechanic thinks they are the cause of your vibration? Has he put a dial indicator on the wheel to see if they have gotten bent over time? The wheels do get bent when the tires are changed when the tire mech breaks the bead on the inboard side and hits the rim instead of the tire bead.
Another possibility is some debris was on the hub and not cleaned off when the rotors were replaced. It could also be a problem with the tires themselves.
Its a valid thought that has crossed my mind, I think maybe its time I start looking for a ‘great deal’ as a replacement but I’m disinclined to follow it for a couple of serious reasons.
I’ve even gone so far as to visit http://www.agcoauto.com/content/Buy_or_Keep_Calculator and try to make the numbers work out as a case to buy a new car. I actually can’t justify buying a new or newer-used car over keeping this one.
I guess when I was asking ‘what to do’ I meant more as a choice like:
1)Buy $800 of shocks, control arms tie rod ends etc on the internet and spend a day fixing it myself (the springs scare me a bit as I’ve heard horror stories about people failing to compress them properly and dangerous unexected expansions)
2) keep paying a mechanic to replace one part at a time hoping to figure out which is causing the shaking problem. (this feels like a loosing proposition/gamble)
3) just drive it with the shake happening until something gets so bad that the problem is obvious but maybe putting additional wear on other components in the process. (I worry that if the shaking really is the control arm this could be an extremely dangerous choice)
The case against why I can’t justify a new car breake down as follows:
I’ve only spend about $1,200-$2,500 a year on repairs. (average has been closer to the low end of that) And I don’t worry about comprehensive inssurance on the car, just liability, so insurance is very cheap.
- I can’t rent a car+zip car to replace my driving for that little. (1 week and about a weekend a month visiting my 93 year old grandma in the burbs for a weekend both where the car just sits still ads up pretty quick even at low car rental prices)
- I can’t depreciate a new car let alone payments for that little. I could almost lease a car for the $2,500 range, but that’s the worst year’s expendetures in the last 6 not the average…
- I can’t buy a used car even close to this nice for that cheap, plus I’m not sure that my ownership costs on even a 5 year old car would be significantly lower than that, especailly if I had to get comprehensive insurance for the higher value of a newish car…
Am I missing something?
Buy $800 of shocks, control arms tie rod ends etc on the internet and spend a day fixing it myself (the springs scare me a bit as I’ve heard horror stories about people failing to compress them properly and dangerous unexected expansions)
**just a comment about the struts, for a first timer, consider buying the strut assembly that is a little more costly but it includes everything so all you are doing is pulling the strut assembly off and installing the new assembly. (no spring compression needed nor danger) save the danger for next time
braines – You may actually be one of those who could benefit having a low cost lease . Not a high dollar car but a small car with just enough comfort to be useful.
I calculated the cost of our old car, kept 11 years, it is a tad more expensive to lease, but given I will never have to worry about repairs, tires, brakes, coolant and trans flush, spark plugs, fuel filters etc.or any major expense, i am willing to spend the extra $18 per month. Now we are paying $199 a month, could have gotten an 14 camry for 2 years at 147 a month, used to be a buy it and hold it guy, but rethinking the philosophy. Now we are not near to 12k in miles. Average 8k per year, but we lease again miles are forgiven, so they say today. Back to calipers, some aluminium calipers can fail due to wear and ridges built up, or do we say alluminum?
I believe aluminum is US
And aluminium is some european countries
I cant speak for the British, but I know germans spell it aluminium
From a philsophical point of view, I agree that one car per family style car ownership is probobly not the best move if it can be avoided, I really wish that a Zip car style membership could really meet my needs.
I ran the numbers last night pulled out every reciept and maintenance and repair record from the last 6.25 years of ownership including Oil changes, tires, brake pads, transmission fluid etc (so, including normal maintenance that even a new car would need) I have spent just under $7,500 over 6 years. That’s just under $100/month. Including purchase price, gas (estimated) and insurance, I’m at $0.42/mile ($0.21 of that being maintenance/repairs), so the car really hasn’t been a money pit yet, and from a ‘green’ or sustainable point, keeping the car operationally on the road rather than recycling it and buying something new has a reasonable case to be made. I think I could toss another $4k into the car before I came up to the national average for a midsized car of $0.59/mile. Even more than that if you include the ‘negative depreciation’ of aquiring a car for $1 from my grandpa that’s now worth atleast $1,000. My grandpa’s advice before he passed was to drive it until it wouldn’t go, then take the plates off and call a taxi. If there was a much more definative ‘better financial alternative’ I would go for it, but in a ‘tie’ I’m probobly letting that sentiment tip the scales toward keeping it.
@VOLVO V70 and @Barkydog, Assuming that I could ‘trade in’ to cover the lease downpayment, I think I could almost lease a Scion Iq or a Smart Car for that same $100/month. I think either of those would be fine or possibly even better cars for driving around the potholes of Chicago. But I don’t think I would enjoy driving either of those cars on the 5+ hours up to the cabin with my bikes/camping gear as much. Though it might be worth a test drive to find out if I’m just being predjudiced?
@gdawgs I was looking into those struts last night also, I was having a hard time deciphering if the quality/characteristics were the same as stock, and/or if I could find ones specifically for my car, or are they pretty generic? If I bought normal shocks and new springs & bushings. Could a shop (or the shady-tree mechanic I see working on cars across the street) ‘build’ me something simlar out of stock parts that I could just swap on without any ‘oops’ risk?
I called a ‘car expert’ friend in Minnesota last night and he recomended taking it to another shop for a second opinion on what’s causing the shake and tried to disuade me from the diy approach on the shocks. He recomended finding a place that specializes in volvos. He also recomended getting a full inspection to identify any other likely upcomming issues, like I would get if I was considering purchasing a used car to see if there are any things comming up that could factor in.
@gdawgs I was looking into those struts last night also, I was having a hard time deciphering if the quality/characteristics were the same as stock, and/or if I could find ones specifically for my car, or are they pretty generic? If I bought normal shocks and new springs & bushings. Could a shop (or the shady-tree mechanic I see working on cars across the street) ‘build’ me something simlar out of stock parts that I could just swap on without any ‘oops’ risk?
I am also from MN. your questions are a little too detailed when it doesn’t have to be. if you are putting quality and characteristics above price, you have your answer. spend the cash and have it fixed.
If price is more important, just buy the parts and don’t obsess over it.
I installed 2 strut assemblies on a friends Camry 2007 a couple of weekends ago. Via the internet, and including the sway link bars, the grand total was $240. That price compared to 890 quote from a reputable mechanic told him that he doesn’t need to as these questions
the new struts work great, he can’t tell the difference, it is certainly better than before with the leaking struts.
I think the second shop has straightened me out but its taken me a while to convince myself of that. The best thing they did was to not listen to a single thing I was telling them. They simply rebalanced the wheels and the vibration changed dramatically.
Now I still have a vibration, but only when the tire pressure is too low, and I’m in tune with what it is and recognize that it only happens at specific speeds.
I believe that replacing the brake lines really did fix the brake problem, that caused the initial seizure.
I think I then noticed a shaking/vibration that was unrelated to that right afterwards and confused this second vibration as being related to the brakes. I asked the 1st shop to investigate and they said the brakes were seized up and suggested replacing one of the calipers which did nothing to solve the issue. Then they were suggesting $600 to replace the control arms/tie rod ends, in short, just SOME of the suspension, with no guarantee that they had properly diagnosed the correct parts to replace. This open ended pursuit trying one part after another at my expense had me worried. I would be out $600 and perhaps no closer to solving the issue and I was reluctant to take that approach. I had been thinking, for about $800-1000 could I do the work my self and replace ALL the suspension parts. Since I knew I would be replacing some ‘perfectly fine’ and serviceable parts in the effort of comprehensiveness I didn’t want to put in anything that would be WORSE than the part I was replacing and I couldn’t find with any certainty that the pre assembled struts would be compatible with my car based on their website (bolt patterns, loading characteristics etc)
@gdawgs, you make a good point that on a car of 100k miles chances are, any new part is better than what is there currently even if it was still performing adequately, although given that the final solution to the issue was to simply ‘tune’ the balance of the wheels. I could imagine a suspension needing to be in ‘tune’ with the car’s engineering to provide a good ride too.