Bait & Switch?

A markup for parts they didn’t sell? That stinks. If the OP did not talk to the shop owner, he should do so and calmly explain how he feels ripped off. Do so calmly and don’t threaten anything. The owner knows what you can do because he undoubtedly has had customers that did all those things to him in the past. If you don’t get satisfaction, make it clear at the end that you will not return for work in the future. If he tells you he doesn’t need customers like you, you might then consider telling him he doesn’t need customers like anyone else you know.

We’re all arguing amongst ourselves and the original poster hasn’t returned with his thoughts on our discussion.

@DexT‌ you still out there?

. I think he expected it to be basically free because he was under the impression that the belts were already off.

How can an HONEST repair shop expect the old belts to be off when he dropped off the car? Did he have it towed there? How do you remove a power-steering pump without removing the belt?

I’d never go there again. What a crook.

Mike,

If you read the thread, the context of the statement above is regarding the repair process. The impression was, the belts are already off as part of the repair process.

To cut and paste a bit of the quote from the service advisor;

“…we could have put the old ones back on.”

Apparently they were off. It takes no longer to stick the new ones on as it does to reinstall the old ones so it’s a wash.

The exception might be if the service advisor just flat didn’t know what he was talking about.

The impression was, the belts are already off *as part of the repair process*.

I don’t read that. The OP just dropped off the pump and new belts. To remove the pump you have to remove the belts. That is assumed. So the OP assumed (rightly so) that the mechanic would have to remove the belts to remove the pump. How do you remove the pump without removing the belts?

So since the mechanic had to remove the existing belt…then the quote for the job was not correct. As I asked…if the belts were already off…then how did the OP get the car there?

@MikeInNH, the OP dropped off the car and asked that the belts be replaced if necessary, not merely installed. The old belts were installed when the car was dropped off.

The OP “dropped the car off along with the pump and both belts” (emphasis added).

Quote asemaster: “There are 2 belts on this car, one for the P/S, one for the alternator and A/C. The P/S belt is the inner belt. The P/S belt does not get removed from the car to replace the pump. It is loosened, slipped off the pulley and pulled aside. The other belt isn’t touched at all during pump replacement. So the labor price quoted doesn’t/can’t include replacement or installation of new belts.” I think that clearly explains the additional labor charge. Was the service advisor familiar with the belt changing procedure? I’m voting no. Did the mechanic actually performing the work notify the service advisor of the error depriving them of pay? Absolutely! It would have been nice if the service advisor had explained the additional labor charge to the customer. I’m thinking they probably did but OP was convinced they had been cheated and fabricated the “…we could have put the old ones back on.” statement. I’m thinking we have probably beaten this deceased equine sufficiently.

From the Washington State AG’s office:

Estimate: You are entitled to a written price estimate for the repairs you have authorized before the work is performed, only if you deal face-to-face with the facility and the work is expected to cost more than $100. Once you receive an estimate, the facility may not charge you more than 10% above the estimated costs without your prior approval.

I agree with Sarge. You normally would not remove a belt completely, just loosen it and take it off the pulley. It would be another operation to take them off and string new ones. Plus, the fact that he dropped off the belts too in case they were needed seems to me implied that it was ok to change them out if needed. I think the main point is, don’t provide your own parts unless it is by mutual agreement and everything is clear.

Have to agree,because it really makes some mechanics mad,if they cant stick you for the hideous markup on some parts(what really gets me going-full retail+plus a made up surcharge(it happens)-Kevin

Hi everyone, thank you for all your insights. I apologize that I’m unable to be online often as I want to - I’m a new father to a 17 month son. Here are some answers and final thoughts:

@texases - Yes, the shop was aware that I’m supplying parts and their hourly rate is $75 - that was our agreement. If I supply a defective part, it’s my loss.

@missileman - sometimes we go to McD’s but sometimes we go to $6 burger joints. At both places, we know how much we’re paying. And this is really what this post is about - the unexpected expense.

@asemaster - thank you for the detailed technical steps and seeing it from a shop’s perspective. I understand now that the AC/ALT belt didn’t have to be removed to replace the PS pump. The PS belt however should be included in the 1.5 hour estimate of replacing pump - my opinion.

@MikeinNH - the car was driven to the shop, the old pump still worked, it just leaked all over.

I did file a dispute with my bank but now, my plan is to stop by the shop later this week instead to renegotiate the portion of my bill I didn’t authorize. 1.2hr to replace the AC/ALT isn’t accurate or fair when book time is .7hr (as per by asemaster). I would be happy to pay $52.50 instead of $90 - this, I think is fair.

I supplied my own parts because of lower cost. This Maxima isn’t our primary transportation vehicle, I have the luxury of time in finding opportunities. O’Reilly/Autozone sell these reman pumps bet $150-$200, Rockauto is $75 + shipping. I bought my reman pump for $50 with shipping included from an online seller. What would we do without the Internet? No low cost alternatives and no forum to air our thoughts!

17 months? Don’t worry, things get easier pretty quickly. Before you know it you won’t be buying diapers and pullups, the kid will be dressing himself and a Sunday outing won’t involve a stroller and snack bags. Daycare gets significantly cheaper as they get older. At one point I was paying $1500/month for 2 kids in full-time care. On the other hand my brother managed to raise 3 kids and never once get up at night to change a diaper or make a bottle or pay for daycare.

Anyway, remember it is physically impossible to install a new power steer belt without first removing the alt belt. And the power steer belt is not removed to replace the pump, just loosened and pulled aside. I would charge additional labor to replace it no matter who supplied the parts. Replacing it involves removing the alt belt, which is not part of power steer pump replacement.

A service station where I used to get work done would sell me the parts at cost if I made a run for them to the NAPA store for them. I would put on the jacket that had the name “Bud” on the front and had the Sunoco insignia on the back and go to the parts store. Along with the parts for my car, I had a list of parts for other customers to pick up. It was even more fun to go the recycling yard–the service station got the parts for half of what I would pay for them. A shop does have the time expense in securing parts, so I can understand the mark-up.
I was a new teacher at the time, so the savings helped out. Besides, I liked stripping of my sport coat and tie and putting on that Sunoco jacket–made me feel important.

I wouldn’t say things get easier until they are about 21. The challenges just change. It’s all worth it, though. And boys are incredibly active.they bounce off walls for a long, long time.

I’m looking at this a little differently from many of the responses it appears.

I think the shop should have informed you prior there’d be an extra charge to install your new belts. But I don’t think it was a bait and switch thing. Think about it. The shop incurs some add’l risk by installing belts they didn’t source. What if the new belt was the wrong one for the car, etc? And installing it damaged something? They know for certain the old belts fit and worked, so there was less risk in just re-installing the old ones. The quote they gave you was for re-installing the old ones. I think it is reasonable they charge you an add’l fee for installing new ones that you sourced yourself. But I do think they should have told you this in advance.

I might add this.
The OP states the old pump “just leaked all over”.

To me this means not only the PS belt but any other belt was saturated with PS fluid also and both belts are worthless.
In turn this means they all need to come off and all need to go back on.

Could this have been handled a bit better? Yes.

Once you start the chargeback process, you really shouldn’t talk to anyone at the business. You should let the process play through. It’s a little like suing someone in that once you start the process, you let the lawyers do their thing. You need to let the bank handle its process so you don’t give the business a chance to get information they can use against you when they fight the chargeback.

Personally, I sympathize but I don’t think you are going to get anywhere. Normally you don’t get to negotiate the rate you are going to pay for a repair.

I’ve contested something twice. Once with Visa and once with the Attorney General. In both cases they first get the side from the vendor, then decide from that information. They can lie, BS, and cry to support their position and it seems to work. The process though certainly doesn’t endear the vendor to you since they are called on the carpet to explain themselve which no one likes to do. In your case I think all he has to say is you gave them the belts to use if needed, the old ones were shot, our standard price is $90 for changing belts. You didn’t like the price but who does? You wouldn’t have provided the belts unless you expected that they may need them so implied consent and never asked about the price. I can’t charge what the customer wants to pay, now can I? Either way, you won’t be going back to them because after this they would be backed up two months with work and wouldn’t be able to get you scheduled.

You think $50 is fair but $90 isn’t. So the whole thing is about $40. Maybe I’m wrong but for 40 bucks I’d forget it.

@Bing, I’m thinking the garage will only have the original quote that the OP signed. They won’t be able to prove the OP authorized the extra $90 charge. The OP can show phone records to prove they never called for the authorization to do an extra $90 worth of work. I have dealt with many chargebacks on the business side, so I know how it works, and the burden of proof is on the business.