I owned a couple Vega’s (1 auto, and the other manual).
The Vega engine as designed was a POS. I rebuilt my Vega engine the CORRECT way by adding steel sleeves to the cylinder walls. Both of my Vega’s had engine issues by 60k miles. The silicon lined cylinder walls were the problem.
This isn’t related to car engines but the small engine guy I use says to always run 2 stroke lawn equipment at full or near full power. He says running these things light is the best way to gunk up the engine but good. He told me that the only idling should be to warm it up and let it cool before turning it off if it has been run hard or is hot outside.
As for the Vega, I once heard a story where someone was driving a Vega and a chunk of the piston or cylinder wall broke off while driving and wedged between the piston and cylinder, locking up the engine and the wheels! Talk about a POS!
Those Vega engines were made of Swiss cheese (aka silicon impregnated aluminum). We had one and the block cracked.
I think some small engines are made without a steel sleeve in the cylinder. It is amazing that they work as well as they do, especially with how many people never change the oil, but I assume they use a similar technique to harden the aluminum. It is just that there have been several decades to perfect this.
I think some small engines are made without a steel sleeve in the cylinder.
It’s not just small engines. Many V8 engines from europe don’t sleeve their engines and have great success.
That sounds like the alloy used in the Vega engine. But for some reason it didn’t work as intended.
It’s similar…GM could have done it right if they didn’t rush the Vega to market.
It seems like the US rushes an idea to market too fast and it fails. Then it is up to the Asians to perfect it and sell it back to us with great success.
“For the shelf at the top of the cylinder, are you talking about the wear ridge or a shelf of deposits where the wear ring usually forms? I guess running an engine hard after this could break all that loose at once, causing problems.”
Yup. But the “wear ridge” is the more proper description than “deposits”. That ridge can break a ring.
I’ve heard that if an engine develops a wear ridge after long operation at low rpm, then gets revved up high the elasticity of the connecting rods can allow the piston to rise higher and break rings.
This may happen if a car driven by a “little old lady” is sold to a speed hungry teenager.
@missileman
Very good ! You get a star !!! If My only thought might be that the auto was three speed and with the manual … the manual owners could keep the revs lower ??? Just a guess. Autos weren’t like they are today and would downshift regardless of the speed and rpm up to a point. I can easily see one being harder on a car then a manual…esp if it’s three auto vs four speed manual on some.
He liked to drive as fast as he could get away with…till he bought that car.
You could beat up on the six cylinder AMC engine, it likes it.
A lot of those old AMC engines were pretty indestructible. I am not familiar with what they all went in but have known people with old Jeeps and those old 4WD Eagles and they just run forever. This may be the same engine for all I know. AMC really had some ideas that were ahead of their time in my mind. Everyone wants a crossover now like the Subaru Outback and others. That 4WD Eagle was basically the first of this kind. Before now, everyone wanted a big luxury SUV like the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Those old Wagoneers fit the bill at the time they were around.
I had 3 AMC cars with 3 versions of the 6 cylinder engine. The first was a 1965 Rambler Classic 550 with the 199 cubic inch 6. I had a 1968 Javelin with the the 232 cubic inch version and then a 1975 Pacer with the 258 cubic inch 6. All these engines had 7 main bearings, ran very smoothly and used no oil. I replaced the Rambler Classic with a 1971 Maverick. It had a 250 cubic inch 6 with 7 main bearings. It didn’t run nearly as smoothly as the AMC engines and used a quart of oil every 1250 miles.
I always thought those 6 cylinder engines from AMC were much better than the Chrysler slant 6.
I couldn’t afford a Vega so never had the pleasure of owning one. Now be honest, which is worse, an engine that loses a chunk of piston and locks the wheels at 60 mph, or a switch that turns the car off at 60? Or flying piston debris or flying air bag shrapnel? We are all lucky to be alive.
I would be hard pressed to remember any straight six built in America during that time that hasn’t a sturdy motor. I know we are singing the praises of the AMC but, GMC and Chrysler slant six were pretty darn good and always have been. The Vega motor stunk because it tried to do something new with a half buttocks approach. The concept was solid but like most bean counters, they push stuff out before it’s ready to capitalize on the hope of it’s newness. The American six…solid for many years for all makers. It just seems like an inherently sturdy design.
How about the Ford 300 inline six? That one is pretty much as solid as they come for the old trucks. I think the natural balance is a big part of why these all held up well. For the Ford, it was simple and used timing gears so not much to go wrong.
I have done some more reading on the Cadillac Northstar. It appears there were 3 main generations of this. The 1st one had lots of problems with the head and head gasket. The second generation was OK and the 3rd was pretty decent. The one I had experience with was the 2nd gen in a 2001 Deville. One of the big complaints about this one is the fact it burned oil in all forms. According to the enthusiasts, some of this was by design as an aggressive cross hatch to allow for upper cylinder lubrication at high RPM simply burned some oil. The other reason is that people who buy these cars are typically senior citizens who don’t run them good and hard as they were designed. This engine was meant to compete with One of the websites I was reading says one should take these engines out and run them like they are stolen once a month or so as that is what they are meant to do. Obviously this is an engine that needs a workout now and then.
I personally wouldn’t want to own one as they are too complex and not the easiest to work on. Why is the starter under the upper intake? The rest of the cars are typically much the same. You have to remove half the dash to change a small part. Obviously this engine has a following in certain circles just as the Geo Metro also has a following.
Just my 2 cents, but babying the engine or hammering it flat out on the floor all the time is not good. The 99% in between shouldn’t be a big problem.
The old VW air cooled engines were pretty content being revved up as that kept the air from the fan moving over the cylinders and heads.
Most overheating problems with those engines were due to driving with a broken or loose generator belt or the cowl flaps getting stuck closed on the fan shroud due to binding or a faulty thermostat.
An engine with good oil in it and a good cooling system should be able to take spirited driving in stride. I admit I beat on my cars a bit. Rarely a week goes by without me flooring the accelerator a few times. I have never had an engine that has had excessive oil consumption and all of my engines have outlasted the rest of the vehicles they were in.
I totally agree that if you baby an engine all the time you’re asking for trouble. On the other end of the spectrum though, even if the engine lasts, you’re asking for problems with the other drive train components. So I would agree with the “drive sanely” sentiment.
There are few things that make me sadder though than seeing someone with a nice car doing a 0-60 in about 2 minutes. (especially if I’m stuck behind them)
The old Beetle of the 60’s ( we had four in our family at one time ) could chug along at anything up to 4k RPM all day long. Go much higher though and they started to have problems. A small block chevy would rev easily higher then that… We had both in the family at different times and my bros 283 was just a great motor. It even heated the car. Now, if some one said that motor "needed to be raced ", it was hard to tell. No one in the family drove it any other way. Even dad looked for any excuse to borrow it and wind it up. The VW’s ? Basic transportation…and it never seemed to matter how you drove them. You had to rev them up some what just to get them around traffic. I did like how easily they shifted though as you did plenty of it.
One thing is for sure, I will never go back to a four cylinder truck unless they charge them. Going zero to 60 pulling a 1000 lb fishing bot is faster with the bigger motor then the four towing nothing. A four cylinder truck is ALWAYS driven hard.