Ours went down slightly, and my parents (different company) stayed about the same, this has happened the last few years…
Per vehicle, the total went up of course when I added the truck, but the other vehicles stayed the same…
My sons did go up a little last year…
The first time I owned a cellphone, the first call, before I had made one or told people my number, was from a guy selling extended warranties for cars.
I didn’t cite the article because it was authoritative but because he raised the issue. I asked here to hear what you-all think, not to recommend his opinion.
Isn’t the work less physically-demanding with computer diagnosis, better tools, and design improved to make working on cars easier? Aren’t cars better-made, need less repair?
Yeah, you hadn’t read through my P0717 issue, part of it I was using a friends Snap-on scanner, it cost around $6,500.00, it is NOT your parts store scanner and we ended up doing the more technical diag part, this thing is amazing what it will/can do, that being said, I still had to chase wires, do a ton of ohm readings and what nots…oh yeah, I also had to buy a jumper harness for the transmission, so that was an added cost to the diagnostic process…
Yes, sometimes the diags can be pretty quick and easy, but not always, and pro level scanners are not cheap, and some/most/all require an expensive yearly subscription(s) for updates and links… I know master techs that tool cost investments are more than their nice houses cost…
Here is a link to the P0717 issue…
And when I rebuilt my buddy’s automatic transmission, I had to buy about $500 or $600 for 3 or 4 specialty tools that I didn’t have access to being retired… (normally trans shops have them), The next one that I may build I am going to either have to make or buy a couple of specialty tools for it…So NO, modern cars are not always cheaper to work on…
DO you not think that a DOHC with VVT’s is not much more labor intense to rebuild than an old 350ci Chevy engine, and you can’t even begin to imagine how much harder a 6-8-10 speed automatic trans vs an old 3 speed automatic trans is to work on…
Now think about all the modules that newer vehicles have that all intertwin with each other…
Sorry, but you have know idea of what all is involved with newer vehicles vs older ones…
The diagnosis is often the easy part, physically. The real work begins when the repair starts. Designs have improved making repairs less frequent. However, the designs have been optimized for assembly and parts are packed in tightly. If anything, repairs requiring parts removal are more physically demanding now than in the past. I used to be able to sit in an engine bay with the radiator & support removed. You could also see the ground and most of the parts from above…
I troubleshot a wiring harness once. The burner was that it was a short in an unused wire. I thought pros didn’t troubleshoot harnesses but replaced the whole thing.
That makes sense. Thanks.
Well, maybe that’s so, but when it comes down to it, if you commit to replacing an entire harness you had ■■■■ well better be sure that the harness is going to fix the problem! For example:
This car with only 3000 miles on it was brought to the dealer with an airbag warning light. Tech diagnosed an intermittent open in the main interior harness. After gutting the car to replace the harness the problem persisted. A field engineer was brought in, and found a faulty seat belt assembly was the cause.
That is more of a dealer thing, but sometimes the harness might have an update to it…
The trans with the code was traced down to the wiring harness inside the transmission… If it gets pulled again and I have to open it up, the harness will get replaced… But most of the time, like with the Cobalt’s under hood wiring harness, I repaired it, not replacing an entire wiring harness due to the main ECM/TCM ground wire being damaged…
But even a lot of pros don’t dig to deep into wiring issue and repairing them, can be very time consuming and costly… There are automotive specialty electrical shops that stay booked up cause some “pro shops” don’t do, or know how to do wiring diags and repairs…
Replacing vs repairing really depends on the situation…
Oops!!! 
Ase:
Aren’t there diagnostic flowcharts that techs are supposed to follow:
Yes, then … do this
No, then … do that
when troubleshooting, to avoid such a mistake?
Yes and no. Many times there are things outside the norm. A GOOD MECHANIC will follow a standard diagnosis lean on their experiences.
MikeNH:
And seat belts should have been one of the first things examined, either as standardized flow or technician common sense.
That vehicle looks totalled since it’s entirely stripped, lol! It might have taken hours to strip down like that, but could take DAYS to put back together, the right way so no new codes are thrown.
That actually proves my point. The diagnostic flow-chart may not have had (Check Seat Belt.). These flow-charts were created by previous techs to help younger/newer techs diagnose problems. They are based on likely scenarios. Sometimes they miss something. Especially if it’s out of the norm. A good mechanic with years of experience might have figured it out. Vehicles are complicated pieces of equipment.
So a couple of things here, this mechanic could have been the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even the 4th mechanic to look at it, if not the 1st then they may have read the history and assumed the seat belts had already been checked, OR he could have simply thought (like most people) that surely a NEW part could not be the issue but that an intermittent open surely has all the makings of a damaged wiring during install/manufacturing process, right?? You know, over thinking it… (can’t even begin to count how many times I have seen a mechanic install a brand new battery, or starter, or alt, or etc etc that was defective)
Heck, I think we all get used to a problem and have sometimes jumped the gun on a repair… I remember seeing a lot of window regulators going out (random vehicles, not related) and because things for mechanics sometimes seems to come in waves, we jump the gun, so dad called me and said his r/f window was down and wouldn’t come back up, I hadn’t checked it yet but he has always been a pretty good DIYer, so I told him to order the window motor/regulator, so he shows up with mom in the passenger side, it was sprinkling so I had him pull sideways up to the garage and I lowered the door down over the top of the car to keep dry, so I hit the switch from the passenger side and sure enough, nothing, same from drivers switch… I removed the door panel and checked again for power to confirm, well I had power, but I will be danged if it didn’t work then, remove test light and it didn’t work, WTH, great, NOW I have to chase a ground wire issue, stupid Infinity… uggg, then I thought maybe I can just run a new ground, but then it only work for one side depending on how ai hooked it up, then I started to go back to the basics and think about how the window motors work… Well at least I could get the window up and keep mom dry right?? BTW, they stayed in the car ad we chit chatted the entire time… Well, then it hit me, hey dad, check the back windows, sure enough, they didn’t work either.. I just put my head down and laughed… OK dad, see that little button next to the door locks button, hit it, guess what, the window lock did it’s job… (btw, dad had let his bil borrow the car to go to a dr appt and he said the window stopped working, so he much have hit the button not being familiar with the car)
My wife simple smiled and said, you didn’t KISS it did you??? She used one of my favorite sayings on me… lol
K = keep
I = it
S = simple
S = stupid
So, we are human, sometimes can get a little distracted and even jump the gun a little, but I can promise you one thing, that ONLY happened once… I know tell newer and even seasoned techs that sometimes you need to slow down and think about KISSing it…
Remember;
You can’t buy experience, but it sure does cost you a lot…
And the people who are least experienced (or no experience what-so-ever) jump the gun all the time. Maybe last year in this forum someone asked a question about why his car wasn’t running right and the engine light was on. Someone responded with an answer (I forget what his answer was) because that’s the problem HE HAD on his car. The correct answer was to first get the code read. But the answer guy didn’t like that answer and was insistent his answer was correct. He didn’t understand that there could be many reasons and the only way to properly diagnose the problem was first determine what the ECU code was.
Of course there are. How do you think the harness got replaced in the first place? The problem with flowcharts and factory diagnostic guides is that the engineers who designed and built the system can never anticipate every way in which a component or system can fail.
In the car in question, the tech followed the factory diagnostics for the specific fault. Twice. Including testing the seat belt tensioner. Ended up with no trouble found. Which makes sense, since it was an intermittent failure. Got the shop foreman involved. Unable to confirm a failure point. Called the factory technical assistance line, uploaded live data, pics, test results, factory tech line instructed tech to replace main interior harness. Intermittent problem persisted. Field engineer called in and happened to find intermittent issue in tensioner, as much luck as it was skill.
And when you test or inspect the seat belt tensioner and find no faults you move on to the next thing, right?
You know what NEW stands for, right? Never Ever Worked.
Shortly after I joined the forum, there was a post from a woman in Maine, who wanted to know why her Suzuki’s CEL was lit-up. When she was asked how long it had been lit-up, she told us… 16 years.
When she was told that there could be hundreds of reasons for the CEL, she didn’t like that response, and she also didn’t like the suggestion that she needed a competent mechanic to diagnose the problem. She was also asked if the car had been maintained in accordance with the mfr’s maintenance schedule, and she informed us that, “only an engineer could understand” the maintenance schedule.
Sorry I’m just not going to look at all the responses. From what I have gathered, repair costs are largely due to sensor damage from minor body damage. Instead of $500 for dent repair, add $20,000 for sensor replacement plus wait for stock outs.
