My 450h+ has a 14.5 gallon tank, which gives at least 550 highway miles in HV mode.
That was my thoughts too. See Mikeās post.
If you use Costcoās Visa credit card to purchase gas, that theoretical $3.00 gallon of gas would yield a rebate of 12 cents, which is pretty close. And, that rebate applies no matter where you buy your gas with their credit card.
Edited to addā¦ Costcoās Visa card also yields a 4% rebate on the cost of using a commercial charging station.
I finally settled on using a charging station that is a two minute walk from a gym where I lift weights. By the time I finish at the gym my battery is full. I charge from about 10% to 100%. I have a charging cable now and charge overnight when I get to about 80% charge remaining. The LCP battery is supposed to work more efficiently over time by charging often and to 100%.
I will still use Tesla superchargers when necessary but that is a lot less often now. Some time after dinner I plug in and I have the charger set to start at 9pm when the electricity rates are lowest.
Tesla batteries are expected to last about 200,000 miles. They donāt experience catastrophic failure but the range gradually decreases. At my current mileage, I will hit 100,000 miles in about 15 years. Iām not worried about battery replacement. If I was concerned, I would console myself by thinking about possible changes in the battery market. If I needed a battery in 2033, 10 years after buying my Model 3, I would expect the nonrecurring costs for manufacturing to be fully paid and the replacement cost would be only for recurring costs. Thatās a big decrease in cost right there. Also, current replacement costs are based on existing supply lines which donāt include US sources for lithium. Large lithium mines are in the pipeline in Arkansas and Maine. There are likely other US and other North American sources that will be found in the next 10 years too. There are also other battery technologies that donāt depend on lithium and rare earth elements and that will decrease replacement costs as well.
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Xcel said our new transmission line will cost $1.4 billion. Up from $700 million cost 3 years ago. From solar farms not yet built. Bend over.
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+1 to jtās comments.
I will add that GM has made a major investment in EnergyX, which is developing a method to extract Lithium from previously-ignored Lithium deposits in brine waters around the world.
I should have been more specific. There is a range limitation on the EV-Mode only with a plug-in. But overall range is limited on the MPG and size of gas tank. The plug-in EV gives you an extended Range on the EV over a standard Hybrid. I know a guy who owns a plug-in hybrid and the gas engine never kicks on during his 10 mile commute to work.
Except during times of abnormally high fuel prices, which seems to happen every once in a while, gasoline hybrid electric vehicles are actually cheaper to operate than EVs, with the possible exception of some of the really small and short range ones like the Nissan Leaf, or city only vehicles that never go on a highway.
Why pay more for something up front that has to be charged all the time, canāt be more than so many miles from a charger at any given time, will degrade when parked and not driven on a regular basis, and will over all actually cost more than a gasoline hybrid vehicle?
Europe has extra taxes on fuel, so that might fuel a greater popularity for EVs. Also, people donāt drive as far in Europe.
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Yup!
Almost all of my driving is well-within my PHEVās 56 mile battery range.
I should mention that when I received the vehicle, it had the exact 37 mile range that the mfr claimed, but over the space of about 10 months, it slowly climbed to the point where I now have 20 mile greater range than specified.
I assume that this gain in range would be true for other PHEVs, but I donāt know for sure.
Just a few points that havenāt been touched on. I think most of the sales have been around the two coasts but not as much in the middle of the country. In highly dense populations rather than open country might make the difference.
I still continue to be concerned with the fire hazard and would be reluctant to pack it in my attached garage. Fair or not on a percentage basis, it is a concern.
There was a study out that Iām not going to Loki for that tool all costs including mining that calculated the cost at an equivalent $17 a gallon. There were some holes in it but the bottom line was all things like recycling and grid expansion are not being considered.
I donāt remember the exact figures my happy as a lark bil and his maverick quoted but seems to me his overall fuel mileage was in the 40s. My ice mileage in in the 30s. Not enough of a differential to make a huge difference to me.
So I think at this point a hybrid is the only practical ev for the majority of people unless you are in a highly dense live and work environment where it doesnāt get -20 sometimes. Government mandates aside that would take several volumes to discuss.
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I understand, of course. But there are hard & soft limits. If the driver needs to stop for 10 minutes to buy gas, then free to continue, thatās a soft limit. If the driver has to stop for several hours to recharge, hard limit. Iām asking about which type of limit you are referring to? Are you saying your plug in hybrid must stop for several hours once it reaches 550 miles? Or are you saying it just needs the tank refilled after 550 miles?
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Yes, in theory the 14.5 gallon tank yields 550 miles of range when in HV mode. Although I havenāt tested it to its limits, the type of gas mileage that I have been getting on highway trips should allow me to go at least 600 miles between fill-ups. But, because of the need for coffee and bathroom breaks, I would not drive that many miles w/o a few stops.
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You live in a fairly affluent area with a lot of population density. And if I lived there I would still not want to add range anxiety and the added time and trios for recharging an EV to my life.
I used to have range anxiety. Over time it dissipated, especially after driving from around Baltimore to west of Richmond. I started with a nearly full battery and ended with about one third remaining when we got to our daughterās house. I charged the battery the day before we returned home and had about a third remaining at home. Normally we would use our Odyssey but it was in the shop. The distance traveled was about 158 miles. A more ambitious trip would be to visit the wifeās brother. They live about 250 miles away and that is nearly the EPA range for my car. If we had to use the EV, I could always stop for a recharge at a Tesla charger and eat lunch while we wait.
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Ohio is 800 miles away. Florida is 1600 miles away and other relatives are 300-400 miles away. 150 miles is a walk in the park. But like I said a hybrid could be acceptable but I donāt want to burn the house down and would not leave it outside.
Iād like to tsk more but Iāve got cars to wax. Snow is coming.
Iām waiting for batteries to evolve. There are literally dozens (if no hundreds) of companies worldwide working on new battery technology that has the potential to be better than lithium.
Range is a big factor for me right now. We travel back to NY several times a year and the range isnāt there yet. My wife will probably be the first to get a new car (if she gets a new car since the 07 Lexus still runs perfectly), and it will probably be a Hybrid.
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None of us in the family really need an EV, but most of our trips are short enough that weād only need to charge once a week or so. The trips to see family that now can be done with range to spare would require at least a quick charge to make it round trip. Maybe if they bring the plug in hybrid CRV to the US that is offered in Europe, or a EV version.
There is a Hybrid Subaru Forester coming in the next generation with Toyota providing the hybrid system, like with the Crosstrek Hybrid, but will have to see what price and mpg ratings are.
For 800 miles or more Iāll fly. On a 400 mile trip thatās a lunch break half way through the trip. I already mentioned that for a trip to my BILās house. Averaging about 60 MPH a 400 mile trip is almost 7 hours. Averaging 50 MPH is more likely and thatās an 8 hour trip. A trip that long should include a rest break and you could eat and recharge your battery, yourself, or both. Is your car waxed yet? Oh, and this is an El NiƱo year and rain is much more likely than snow for you. Lots of snow in the southern Rockies though and that good for replenishing the Colorado River reservoirs.
Hereās my take on it. I have never, ever had to replace or otherwise completely overhaul either an engine or transmission in any daily driver I have owned in the last 40+ years. The one transmission was in a well used Toyota Corona I bought when I was much, much younger. So equating these repair costs to EVs doesnāt work for me. Frankly, I canāt think of anyone I really know that has had such major problems. So those are unexpected expenses as far as I am concerned.
In contrast, every single battery powered device or transport mechanism I have owned has had battery failure and in some, prematurely due to lack of use. More recently, the LiON packs I mistakenly left in the garage during freezing weather are ruined. They have no capacity left and will not take a charge. The stuff they were in worked perfectly a week before they sat in freezing temps. Iām not convinced the car battery will be any different experience for me.
So I look at the current EV battery as something that is going to fail and need repair or replacement. Itās not a maybe, itās a given. So that is a looming cost to factor into the equation for me that I normally would not expect in an ICE powered vehicle.
Secondly, I live in an area that gets both hot and cold. We need to run the window defrosters, A/C and I now prefer- seat heaters. The impact to range is expected to be significant using all of these ancillary devices that need a lot of power to run.
Electricity is not all that cheap here. For the last year, just the electricity charge was 27.5 cents/kWH. It recently was adjusted back down to around 15 cents but is expected to go back up in January.
New battery technology for more rapid charging and cordless recharging would be a game changer for me.
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NH (and Iām sure a few others) are looking at adding a new tax to electric rates due to the perceived decrease in tax revenue from gasoline sales when more cars are EV instead of ICE cars.