@Truedaq I’m not suggesting that the independents did not have some innovations, which is not the same as improvements. However, the car business got very competitive once the war time shortage was filled. If Tucker had been a better business man he MAY have succeeded.
My brother in law had a Rambler, a neat little car which cost close to a big 3 full size car. Tom McCahill once wrote in Mechanix Illustrated that for the price of a stripped Chevy you could have a Rambler with the best air conditioner in the business. I’m quoting verbatim from my memory.
Also agree that some ganged up on Tucker. He should have been able to weather that.
It was a fair comparison. I would have made that exact comparison if Trump was running for President for not. He’s exactly how Bing described Musk. Salesman with no substance. Musk is the complete opposite. An engineer with a great vision and has changed the automotive industry for the better.
“It would have been a miracle if Tucker had survived and prospered. The car was not unique enough or technically advanced enough”
I have to strenuously disagree with you. The Tucker was actually decades ahead of the traditional US car companies in many respects:
A center headlight that pivots as you turn the steering wheel.
A “clean” dashboard with no projecting knobs, with a padded top, and all of the controls arranged around the steering column.
A windshield that “pops out” if a passenger strikes it
An aluminum engine that was designed for extremely easy removal and installation–from below. The plan was to “swap-in” replacement engines if extensive repair was necessary, but the fact that this was a military-grade engine designed for helicopters made it very durable.
Performance that was unmatched by US makes (Mechanix Illustrated reported 0-60 times of exactly 10 seconds, a figure that other US car companies wouldn’t be able to equal for several years, coupled with average gas mileage of 18-19 mpg, which was incredibly good for a large car with a 166 hp engine! The automotive writer, Ken Purdy, got a Tucker up to 125 mph during his test drive.)
Rear engine/RWD (for better or worse)
4 wheel independent suspension
Doors that were “cut” into the roof for superior access
In 1973, Special Interest Autos (predecessor to Hemmings Classic Car) published their test of a Tucker that, at that point, had 216k miles on the odometer. They reported that the brakes were very good–for 1948–that it steered easily (despite no power assist and the fact that the steering was an incredibly fast–for the time–3.5 turns, lock to lock), and that it was devoid of rattles or other chassis noises.
Yes, the Tatra had most of these features, but Tatras weren’t available in The US, and probably wouldn’t have been considered to be big enough to be a “family car” in The US if they had been sold here, so that isn’t really a valid comparison–IMHO. If you compare the Tucker to other large sedans that were being sold in The US at that time, I think that it was incredibly advanced, and even if you don’t agree that it was “advanced”, it was certainly unique.
When the Tucker prototypes were being built, the Big 3 were still selling cars of prewar design. The Chevrolet dated back to 1941and the splash lubricated engine went back to 1937. The Ford body went back to 1941and the suspension was solid axle with transverse leaf springs. The Plymouth dated back to 1940,. By. 1948, even the pickup trucks of the Big 3 had been updated with postwar designs. It’s no wonder the Big 3 was afraid of Tucker.
I have no dog in the race. I just find it interesting how Tesla seems to be seen as a god saving the human race and going where all others feared to tread. Maybe the sun god. Let’s face it though, by going all electric (even though the grid is maxed out), he avoided having to engineer and produce expensive engines and transmissions to make it a hybrid. Essentially a battery sled with a couple electric motors and a bunch of software and gizmos to dazzle the crowd. Still think the styling is dated though.
“Elon Musk was considered by some to be an insane dreamer when he said he was going to start a car company from scratch that made only electric vehicles.”
Not to nitpick, but Musk did not start Tesla.
Musk is, however, one of my heros…like Trump…
@Bing - You don’t know much about engineering if you think there’s not a lot of new engineering in the Tesla. Hardware and Software designed from scratch - which no one else had done.
When I was in 4th grade, my two buddies and I had a “lawn mowing company”. My parents had a reel mower that wasn’t powered. I attached a rope to the front of the mower --two pushed and one pulled. We were paid 75¢ for each yard we mowed and we divided the earnings three ways. I plotted on how I could attach a car starter motor and car battery to the mower and be the sole proprietor of the lawn mowing company and have all the earnings. I even thought I might raise the charge to $1 per yard. What I didn’t understand was that the starter motor was not engineered for continuos use nor was a car battery designed to provide power for a long period of time. This would require a differently engineered motor and a deep cycle battery. Sixty five years later, I purchased a used Black and Decker rechargeable battery mower. A couple weeks ago, I had to open the mower up to replace the two 12 volt batteries that power the 24 volt motor. I studied the circuitry that is in the mower and realized the engineering that went into the design of the mower. My plan of putting a starter motor powered by a 6 volt battery would have never worked. The engineering that went into the Tesla is many times greater than the engineering of the rechargeable mower. Just as I couldn’t slap a starter motor and battery on a mower and have a power mower, you can’t just put qn electric motor and battery on a car chassis and have a functioning car. Even the Citicar of more than 40 years ago, crude as it was, required considerable engineering work.
Jt, how is that different from BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Rolls, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, Morgan, and all the other expensive cars in Europe… except that it’ll be able to go into those areas where gasoline and diesel are banned? Europe will probably have some tax and/or insurance incentives as well, but I’m unfamiliar with what they may have.
The annual registration fee is based on a few things
Diesel versus gasoline
size of the engine . . . clearly a small-block chevy will cost you more than a small 4 banger
emissions “level” of the engine . . . for example, a 1970s era engine will be in a different category versus a car coming off the production line today
So theoretically a pure electric car should be cheaper to register. A Prius or Volt would be more expensive to register, versus a Leaf, because they would get hit for the ICE
I think some of the Scandinavian countries are providing MASSIVE tax incentives, rebates, etc., which make buying and operating a pure electric vehicle extremely attractive. I hear the Leaf is particularly popular in one particular country. I forget which one. They apparently have a very decent infrastructure for electric vehicles already set up, unlike here.
And Hybrid cars are NOT very popular there, unlike here
Yeah but in our neighborhood, instead of using an electric motor, several mounted an IC 3.5 horse Briggs to the push mower. Ta-da. Worked continuously as long as you put gas in it. So that’s the whole point of engineering-designing systems that meet customer requirements. A mower that will run all day long or a car that will run all day long. As far as not knowing much about engineering, the quote from Goldwater comes to mind: “I’m no phi beta kappa, I hire 'em.”
@Bing I actually saw an electric motor fitted to a push reel mower. We did have an electric motor around the house from a pressure pump we replaced. However, it would have necessitated a long cord and most houses didn’t have outdoor electric outlets as it wasn’t required by the code back then. I couldn’t, as a 4th grade kid, afford an IC engine. Besides, a,mower with an IC engine cost very little more than the IC itself. I knew where I could get an old starter motor for free, but a battery would set me back $15 which I didn’t have. The next year, my Dad did buy a,gasoline power mower. Unfortunately, so did our customers. My dad did try out a Huffy electric rotary mower before he bought the gasoline mower. The electrc mower was complete frustration. It would bog down in heavy grass, the overload switch would trip and it would be a 5 minute wait before the mower would restart. I was then big enough that I could push the reel mower myself and I preferred it to the Huffy electric mower. The power mower my dad bought was made by the Roto Hoe and Sprayer company. It was wonderful. The mower attachment could be removed and a rototiller attached. I really learned to like technology. Mowing and cultivating sure became easier for me. I really liked, at least for us, the new technology.of the time. I purchased a rechargeable battery mower just to see how well it would work. I am thinking about buying an EV just to see how well it would work for me.
@“the same mountainbike”, I think we are talking past each other. My comments were directed only at city cars for wide distribution. You are talking about luxury cars that are difficult if not impossible to park on the street in large European cities. Tesla can compete with the Marques you mention in the luxury car market, not the city car market I commented on. Tesla may make it into that market eventually, but I don’t think it will be sooner than 10 years.
Point well made, but I’m not sure what cities will end up banning fossil fueled cars. I’d guess that the changes going on in Europe is on Tesla’s radar screen. I guess we’ll all find out together. I can tell you that the last ten years have flown by. At least for me they have.
There is a lot of society and politics mixed up with everything these days. The reason in my mind is the fact that we silly humans have allowed things to get to the unsustainable level long ago.
Population, what people think they need, how we live…none of it is sustainable. Now politicians have found a new war to play with…the eco war and how we should do this and not do that…but the engines of un-sustainability were fired up long ago IMHO… Everything we do now will just be too little too late…and all the policing we will try to enforce will only make the experience worse than it already is.
Nobody seems to want to recognize this fact… We are too many…wanting too much and its been out of control for a long long time.
