The intake will likely need replacement but not necessarily. The ports in your intake between the carburetor and the leak you plugged are for the EGR valve that was held down on the 2 studs. That EGR is the external vacuum operated type rather than the orifice type that I had guessed were used but the problem is still a deteriorated intake. If you never drive in cold weather you may be able to block off the crossover ports at the head and cap the EGR ports on top and get it running again for the price of some gaskets and a small piece of soft aluminum sheet metal.
So I’ve taken off the intake manifold. It was a very unpleasant ordeal, but I did it. Here are the pictures:
So what’s the verdict? I have never seen such a dirty engine. Taking off the intake manifold, I couldn’t prevent tons of dirt from falling in. What should I do? Should I try and vacuum out as much as I can, or will the oil filter catch it all, or is it extremely dangerous?
Vacuum up as much debris as you can and then spread some oily rags over the valley while you scrape the sealing surfaces on the heads and block. I often cut a piece of cardboard to snugly fit in the valley and another to rest over the top to keep trash out when not working on it. Someone has previously tried to patch some problems with the intake and you need to consider replacing it. You might wire brush the intake and then clean it at a spray car wash to see how much damage has been done. If there are any breaches in any part of the manifold will require welding or replacement. The intake gasket had blown out and was the gap you had tried to plaster over it appears.
That’s one cool thing about cars @MFarmer, pretty much no matter what is broke, it can be fixed. Keep on chuggin’, eventually you’ll get the old beast running like a clock again.
The “it can be fixed” phrase doesn’t apply w/DVD players for example. If a transistor in your DVD player fails, that’s the end of it. There’s no fixing a DVD player. You just buy a new one. But with a car, no matter how old or new, it can almost always be fixed.
Get it back to where it used to be first step.
I feel like I’m in the presence of greatness. I’m like a young apprentice, and you are teaching me how to catch flies with chopsticks, and to wax on and off. You see things that I cannot see, though I’m staring right at it. How can you tell that someone has tried to patch up the intake manifold? All I see is a dirty hunk of metal. How do you condemn this manifold? Is it the clogged up ports? Is it the bent plate at the bottom? Is it the broken gasket? I wish I could see it! It’s like everyone is staring at the most beautiful thing in the sky, and I can’t see it.
So is the intake manifold the most likely reason I’ve been having idling issues, rather than the carburetor?
I’d like to go to pick n pull, or another junkyard, to get an intake manifold. Do you recommend this? On their website however, they don’t have the B300 listed under Dodge. This is a 19’ Dodge Tioga GT motorhome built on the B300 van chassis I believe, because all the parts I’ve bought at the store using that have worked, and that’s what vinwiz.com told me. http://www.vinwiz.com/1970-1980mopartruck.php?vin=B30BF3V062242
Is there a way to find cross compatible parts? Because a lot of cars used this 360 motor, so in theory, they would use the same intake manifold, right? If I can find one at pick n pull, it’ll only cost me $40. Awesome. Otherwise, probably at least $200. And that cannot happen my friends, it cannot be. Maybe it can be welded, but my first choice would be a junkyard. I’d rather call them recycling yards. Sounds better.
I don’t know what this means:
"Ed Prichard wrote: “Any intake that fits an LA 318 will also fit a 273. They will also fit 340s and 360s as well. But it is easier to find a “non-smog” intake for a 273 or 318 than a 360.”
Since the bolt angle on the intake changed in 1966, the 1964-65 heads and intake are unique and cannot be interchanged with other LA engines or with the later 273." - http://www.valiant.org/valiant/V8.html
There a list here of cars that used the V8 360 Engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine#360_V8
I think I’ll go check out a lot of the different cars on the list, and play a game of trial and error. Should be horrifying. Wish me luck!
Pick n pull actually has a new computer system called row52 or something. Do you think these 1974 Dodge vehicles might work?: http://row52.com/Search?Year=1974&ZipCode=95828&Distance=50&MakeId=117&ModelId=&LocationId=&Page=1
Row 52 also gives the VIN number of the cars! That is insane! So I can pop in the vin numbers and find out what engine it has! This detective mystery is getting solved!
Ah! Another clue! Looking up gaskets at a parts store, I found that this gasket fits my car along with many other years. If the gasket fits, you must acquit!: 1988-1971 Dt L/D V8 360ci 5.9l (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/FEL0/MS90109/02293.oap?year=1974&make=Dodge&model=B300%2BVan&vi=1074574&ck=Search_intake+manifold+gasket_1074574_2884&keyword=intake+manifold+gasket)
I believe this may be my intake manifold:
1977
Dodge
Truck (Pre-81)
D14BF7S167382
PICK-n-PULL Rancho Cordova Rancho Cordova, CA 95742 84 May 09, 2013
5 Engine F V8 360-2v (LA)
Same VIN letter and engine as mine. Yeah! This is glorious!
The bent heat shield plate indicates that someone has likely attempted to patch a crack and the EGR block off plate confirms that someone has had some troubles with the EGR or its plumbing, @MFarmer.
The Mystery of the Black Dust
So I took off the intake manifold, cleaned it all up with a wire wheel, checked it with a straight edge, got a new intake manifold gasket, and put everything back together. (I wanted to try something else before I condemn the manifold.)
Now the engine won’t start. Occasionally after lots of cranking, spraying some starter fluid, and flapping the choke about, a pluff of black dust will come out of the cracks of the intake or carburetor or somewhere. Now I believe the black dust is carbon deposits that I made with the wire wheel. It isn’t smoke, doesn’t smell like smoke, or burning. Like a puff of air comes out somewhere and the black dust comes out. All the intake manifold bolts are very tight.
There’s a horseshoe opening around the exhaust. http://imgur.com/a/ULOKn I believe it is the original design. I’m just curious as to why? I want to understand the purpose and reasoning and need of that opening. The engine before started just fine like that. Also, why did the gasket kit come with 3 gaskets? The extra that I didn’t use is in the middle of the picture, with the small hole. I am so curious as to what the purpose of that third extra gasket is.
What have I changed and done wrong so as to cause the engine to now not start, and to emit a plume of black dust?
“If our life here on earth is hell, and marred with unspeakable trauma and pain, it’ll make heaven that much more beautiful.” – While I agree with you in principle, that philosophy is like constantly hitting your head against the wall because it feels so good when you stop…
If you’re getting a puff of ‘black dust’ from anywhere, it sounds like debris you left may be puffing out due to the engine backfiring through the intake and still probably having a massive leak. Debris from grinding isn’t good–it will contaminate the oil and lead to a short engine life. It’s a little less bad since you used a wire brush instead of an abrasive wheel, but still not good…
Any engine this old is going to be dirty, especially in a motor home where it may have been somewhat neglected and sat for a long time between runnings. I wonder if the timing chain isn’t stretched out too and possibly jumped a tooth or two. Also, do you smell fuel when you’re cranking it? If so, you may have the opposite problem: It could be flooding.
I’d start with the basics: Make sure you have a good, strong blue spark at the plugs. Make sure fuel is getting to the carburetor. Check to make sure the new plugs aren’t fouled. It might help to give each cylinder a brief shot of starting fluid before putting the plug back in. Not too much. If it starts with starting fluid, you know the timing must be okay. If it won’t start with starting fluid and has good spark and fuel, I’d look at the timing. It might also not be a bad idea to do a compression test on this old engine to see what you’re working with.
I had a 1980 New Yorker with a 360 and a Carter carb. Last of the big boats. It was one of the most reliable and worry-free cars I’ve owned, and I had it near the end of its life.
That intake gasket is not the correct part. XXXXXXXXXXXX
After a second look with my bi-focals I will say the gasket may be correct. When the old and new gasket are overlayed do they match? If so it is likely correct.
Now, looking back at the entire thread I saw the photo of the EGR port that was open below the carburetor. Has that port been blocked?
Farmer should stick with farming and leave auto-mechanics and auto repair to someone who knows what they are doing…It sounds like this poor soul has destroyed his truck engine following advise all based on guesswork and wishful thinking…
The engine won’t start even with starter fluid. It just gets to a point where a puff of black dust comes out through the cracks. I smell fuel with the key in the ON position, while the electric fuel pump works, but I don’t think so while cranking. I’m not sure I’ve installed the distributor correctly. It is in relatively the same position it was before, but it isn’t bolted down, just sitting on there loose, and can rotate clock and counterclockwise to advance and retard timing. Does this matter?
I’m almost certain fuel is getting to the carburetor. Another time I had taken off the carburetor, cleaned it up a bit, fuel came out of it, I put it back and the engine wouldn’t start. I think it wasn’t being filled with gas. I forget what I did, but eventually it did fill with gas, and the engine did start up again. When I hit the gas pedal now, fuel does come out when I look past the choke.
I’m starting to think that maybe I’ve installed the intake incorrectly or there’s something going on with how I’ve installed the distributor. I did match up the old and new gaskets and they matched. The third gasket that came with the kit with the tiny hole is a mystery. I’m thinking maybe there’s too much air coming in, and maybe that’s why the engine won’t start, and maybe I should try a different installation of the gasket. People do it differently. Some throw away the top and bottom pieces and use RTV instead, some use RTV in a different pattern, some don’t use any at all, etc. I did do it in the same manner as that picture of page 2 or 3 of this thread, a little RTV around the water jackets and exhaust, and on the edges of the top and bottom pieces. Maybe the plugs are fouled, I’ll check them. And also, maybe I’ve got some of the vacuum hose routing incorrect. I took pictures and I’m sure 95% of the are correct, but one or two may be wrong. That could be something.
I’m not sure what EGR port you mean. The little plate that covered those two holes on top of the intake has been installed, and the engine started normally before with that plate on. The large metal plate underneath the location of the carburetor is still there, and had quite a bit of carbon build up in it’s edges.
So I want to re-cap again what it might be so far:
-Fouled plugs giving off no spark.
-Too much pirate air due to a leak somewhere
-Distributor and/or timing issue
-Vacuum hose routing
-?
How did you install the distributor to get it in time?
Well I marked where it was last time and I placed it there. There’s like a flathead screwdriver groove and I just mated the distributor with that gear. I just pulled the spark plugs and they were fine. Out of all the weeks this could have happened, I just got a notice on the RV. a 72-hour notice that says they think I’ve abandoned the vehicle and they’re going to have it towed, and be fined $575. My understanding is that all I need to do is get it running again and prove that it hasn’t been abandoned, or at the very least I could just move it to a friend’s house or what have you. So it’s really on the line now and I’m desperate. The next thing I’m going to do is check for spark.
I just went to put a spark tester on a spark plug, cranked, and the carburetor spit up at me. Earlier today when I went to crank it, without a spark tester, I saw a geyser of fuel come out of the carburetor. I don’t remember if that was before or after I sprayed some starter fluid, but I think it was before. What does this mean?
Based on your comment about the distributor, I think you have the ignition timing way off. The distributor has a “screwdriver blade”. You could easily have it 180 deg. off. The carburetor “spitting” at you is a good indication that the spark is occurring when an intake valve is open, and that the ignition timing is off. You could try to determine where top dead center is and set it properly, but I’d probably just try moving the distributor 180 degrees and turning it back and forth through the range of its timing while someone cranks the engine and see if it fires up.
I’ll flip the distributor and give that a go. But I’m 99% sure it’s where it was before when the engine could run. I know nothing about cars, but I highly suspect an intake manifold leak that is causing the mixture to be too lean, resulting in a no-start condition, and I believe that leak is also causing a sort of lean mis/back-fire (no idea if I’m using those terms correctly, most likely not), resulting in said Black Plume of Dust. Could also account for the geyser of fuel, which could have been fire. I know someone who had their eyebrows taken off looking down a carburetor and having it fire. But don’t let my uneducated guesses influence a diagnosis. I really have no idea.
I’m now almost certain the engine is backfiring. I suspected an intake manifold leak (remember that I had just replaced the gasket) so I tightened up the bolts to blood murder. Now instead of a plume of smoke around the gasket edge, the choke opened up a bit, and spit out that same black dust. I believe this to be a backfire and thank goodness there wasn’t actual fire. So at least I am so certainly sure of that now. So that’s a good thing. But my deadline is tomorrow or the RV is getting towed and I’ll be getting a $575 towing charge. What now kind strangers?
Alright it may be a timing issue now. When I advanced the distributor clockwise, fuel spit out of the carburetor. 2 good geysers of fuel. When I retarded the distributer counterclockwise, a very loud backfire came out of the tailpipe/rear of the car. What does this all mean? Please help.
You installed the distributor wrong. Did you mark the rotor direction before you removed it? Did you rotate the crank/engine with the distributor removed?
Remove the distributor, turn the shaft 180 degrees, install and use a timing light.