Was it a nice fat blue spark? A weak spark won’t have a blue appearance or a nice “snap” to it. A plug can fire in the air, but won’t fire under compression.
With the old gas comes varnish in the carb. It could be the carb is in bad shape. Varnish will make the floats sticky in the bowls, and can clog the jets.
If it won’t run with known good gas going to the carb, then my next move would be to get inside the carb and see what is going on in there. Good carb rebuilders aren’t easy to find anymore, so you might need to buy a new carb. Pulling a carb and installing another isn’t too hard. Rebuilding a carb, that takes some more skill and experience.
We have not checked these, that will be part of todays projects!
Thanks for the reply. We had already changed the gas out with some fresh fuel. Figured it’d probably go bad after sitting that long. This morning we got new plugs and gapped them all, same result…
We were worried about the same thing so hooked the fuel pump intake line directly to a jerry can of gas and tried tried spraying the carb with some starter fluid but still no luck! I’m starting to lean more towards the timing. The rotor is pointing at number 1 when in the compression phase but the pointer is not lined up with 0 on the balancer. Now we’re figuring out how to adjust this… haha
So we’ve got the rotor lined up to 1, and it’s in the compression stage but the pointer is not lined up to zero. Any hints on how we can adjust this??
Before you tear into the carb, follow Mike’s direction, and see if it fires with the starter fluid sprayed directly into the carb.
IF it WON’T fire, not start and run, but fire, then you have something more wrong, most likely timing. Eliminate that first before you rip into something as complicated as a carb.
It was definitely blue but I guess I don’t know if it’s sparking under compression I suppose… hrm!
The starter fluid and new gas just didn’t work and we made sure to try the new gas directly from a jerry can hooked up to the fuel pump intake line in case the tank was all gummed up. Thanks all for those suggestions, good to trouble shoot the easy stuff first. We’re leaning towards timing but not sure how to adjust this. The wheel with the degree marks on it needs to be at zero when the piston one is at the compression stage but the rotor does not point at one. We need to adjust it I’m guessing
Can you smell raw gas coming out of the tailpipe? Off timing could certainly keep it from running, but if you are getting spark and gas in the cylinders you should get some kind of fire, backfire, or flame out the tailpipe. The timing would have to be completely whacko to get no kind of action at all from your starting attempts.
How do you know you have spark? Have you replaced the distributor cap and rotor? Have you noted the rotation direction of the rotor and followed the firing order so you know you have the correct wire going to the correct plug?
You adjust timing by moving the distributor, loosen the hold down screw and rotote it one way of the other to advance or retard the timing. You can have the distributor timing way off and still get a motor running. So, either you really don’t have spark, you don’t have gas in the cylinders, the compression is not sufficient, or your internal timing is off (as in the timing chain has jumped several teeth). Gas going to the carb, isn’t gas going through the carb. No luck with starting fluid, means no spark at all to me.
To check the old gas and the bad carb theories, try spraying a little starting fluid in the carb and see if the engine coughs and tries to start. If it does, it is your choice which you think is easier: playing around with the carburetor or draining and replacing the old gas.
If not, I actually had this engine in a 69 Mustang, and it was the best thing about the car, so I doubt the compression is the problem, but a compression check is easy enough to do.
This sounds like poorly gapped points or a timing problem. It is definitely possible that the timing chain has slipped, but it is also possible that the distibutor is just loose. Make sure of that first - the distributor is held in place with a triangular steel plate at the base, held down with a bolt. See if the bolt isn’t just loose, which would mean the timing is far enough off that the car won’t start even with a good timing chain, good fuel, good spark and a good carb. If it is loose, that is your whole problem. You can re-time the engine enough by hand to get the engine to start (see below).
The points are another issue for this engine. The points must be clean, unworn, and properly gapped (I used to use a matchbook cover to re-gap the points in emergency situations, and that worked out fine). The points are really only relevant in your situation if they are worn or too widely gapped: if they were closed, you would get no spark. But if they are overly worn or incorrectly gapped, the car will not start but you would have spark.
I’d see about the timing issue first - the easiest method has already been described for the purpose of checking the status of the timing chain. There is a similar method to ballpark the position of the distributor, using the rotor. With the number one cylinder in the top dead center position (meaning you can touch the cylinder with your pinky finger with the spark plug out), the skinny part of the rotor should be pointed directly at the spark plug wire insert on the distributor cap holding the spark plug wire that goes to the number one cylinder, or else, directly opposite the number one cylinder. If it is not either, the distributor may be slightly out of posistion. Rotate the engine so that the the number on cylinder is in top dead center position while the rotor is closest to pointing toward the number one plug, loosen the distributor (by loosening the bolt I already mentioned, which is either tight or already loose on you car), and rotate the distributor so that the skinny part of the rotor points to the number one wire on the distibutor. Then tighten the bolt and replace the cap and try to start the engine. This should get the engine well enough timed to start the engine, providing there are no other problems. Once started, you’d time it more exactly using a timing light.
I think that given your work so far, these are very easy and low cost things to check before you do anything else. I am assuming that the prior owner didn’t just replace the whole distributor with an electronic upgrade, that your distributor is the original part or the exact part replacement.
Oh yeah, if it is original, the gear at the bottom of the distributor also tended to wear and even lose teeth, which would also cause timing issues.
I did change the timing chain once on my Mustang. They do wear out and slip, especially on cars as old as these). But often I had to mess with points (which was a flimsy little part seated onto a weak metal petal held in place by a tiny screw) or timing issues. Never had any problem with the carb.
Oh yeah, the points are supposed to open once per plug wire (as the rotor passes each plug wire on the distributor) and then close again for the interim until the next plug wire is about to be passed. You need to check the points in their fullest open position, which should be pointing directly at that time at a plug wire on the distributor. Any position at all is fine to check the points.
By which I meant, any fully open position.
I appreciate everyones help and advice! Amazing the amount of responses, we really appreciate them. I had to go away for a few days but am back now. We did a compression test and found cylinder 1 has no compression and the other 7 have 90 psi (supposed to be 125 I think). We’ve decided to pull the engine and check the piston rings. We were just going to use chains to lift the engine but someone suggested it’s best to use eye bolts screwed into the top of the engine. Anyone have experience with what’s best? We’re also debating on whether to drop the tranny onto a jack or o pull the tranny and engine together. Any good advice??
The engine may have jumped a timing chain. To find out, remove the distributor cap. Get a socket and breaker bar on the crank shaft bolt. While someone watches the rotor in the distributor, rotate the engine one direction by the crank bolt and stop. Now rotate the engine in the opposite direction. If the crank shaft can be rotated more than 5 degrees before the rotor in the distributor turns, the timing chain may have jumped.
Tester
If the timing chain has not jumped then the engine is worn out and the compression is simply too low to allow the engine to start. Compression should be up in the 180 or so range with variance based on engine wear.
If the chain has not jumped then squirt a small amount of oil into each cylinder, reinstall the spark plugs, and then see if the oil bumps the compression up enough to start. If it starts and runs (and it will smoke) let it run for a bit, shut it off, and then attempt a restart.
There’s always the possibility that sitting for years and washing the cylinder walls down with gasoline could lower the compression but No. 1 with no compression does not sound good.
ok4450,
The reason I suggest the timing chain is, I had a friend with a 70 F150 with the 302, and on the way back to from a hunting trip the timing chain jumped. He knew what had happened because the engine would motor when he tried to start it. So he had a buddy tow him home.
He replaced the timing chain but one cylinder wouldn’t fire. So I went over to look at it and found an intake valve in one of the cylinders was bent. So the cylinder heads had to come off.
Who’ld a thunk that an American piece of V8 cast iron would bang a valve when the timing chain let go?
Tester
Sorry I didn’t get back sooner, I missed your response. I have read all the other posts and your reply to those and I suspect that your timing might be off 360?, which is 180? for the distributor. That is your spark is occurring on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke.
You need to remove the valve cover on the drivers side and look at the valves. With the timing marks on or near 0?, both valves should be closed. If you are on the exhaust stroke, both valves will be open, the exhaust closing and the intake opening.
When you are sure that you are on the compression stroke, both valves closed, stop at the desired initial timing mark. If 4?BTDC is specified, that is where to set the engine. Before removing the distributor cap, take a COLORED (not black) Sharpie or magic marker and mark the position of the #1 post on the body of the distributor. With the distributor cap off, the points should just begin to open. The rotor should be pointing fairly close to the Number 1 post.
If the rotor is not pointing closer to the #1 post than any other post, pull the distributor and move it one notch and reinsert and check alignment. Now turn on the ignition to the run position, rotate the distributor until the point close, then rotate until you see the spark across the gap as the points begin to open. Lock down the distributor at this point.
One more detail about the Ford engine that is different than others. Other V8 engines count the cylinders from the front to the back of the engine. If you look closely, you will see that one head is slightly forward of the other so that when you number the cylinders to determine the spark plug wiring order, you are going from side to side. Ford however starts with the drivers side front and numbers them 1-2-3-4, then goes to the front of the passenger side and continues 5-6-7-8.
I got a heck of a deal on a Mercury one time because the owners son changed the plugs and wires and did not know this. He got the firing order wrong and the engine would not run. I reordered the plug wires to show the guy that the engine was ok but since he made the deal, he stuck to it. I did offer him an out so I don’t feel any guilt over it…
Make SURE your have the wires on the distributor in the correct sequence going to the correct plugs …FIRING ORDER… Get that rite.
NEXT…if this hasnt been run in a long time… MAKE SURE YOUR EXHAUST IS NOT PLUGGED UP…Often overlooked and Extremely important. I have tried to get vehicles running after a long time off the road and found myself scratching my head before I went back to the basics… YOu need Compression, ignition AND EXHAUST…
After some time on these vehicles I simply loosend the pipe at the exhaust manifold…and BOOM…it started. If this engine cant breath for any reason you will drive yourself nuts looking at all the basics… EVERYONE overlooks the exhaust…we all just assume its free and clear.
Get your basics right and then make sure she can breath…when you are cranking it over have and assist go out to the pipe and put their hand over it…you should feel air coming out of it…if not…You found the issue.
ALso…YOU MUST HAVE FRESH FUEL…if you are trying to run this on old stale fuel FORGET IT…YOu can run a hose into a small fuel can and the other end to the fuel pump to make a new fuel tank…one that has fresh fuel…THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT…You will go nowhere on old fuel. TRUST ME…This is all under THE BASICS HEADING
PLEASE CHECK THE TAILPIPE FOR PROPER BREATHING…You will go nowhere if she cant breathe
OK