I will cover several questions/comments in this post.....YAY I am glad another knowledgeable gearhead agrees with me about the stoutness of the clutch. AND CADDYMAN knew the shaft was offset on the engine!!! FINALLY a group of people that know what I know....I have to explain this to my friends over and over....Ugh.... I can count on one hand the people who would have known that the output shaft was offset on the engine...after telling them this idea....I am the only one of my group that knew that from minute one......
I never really sweated the clutch too much bec I had visions of FAT people on a GL powered trike with a BIG trailer always...I would imagine those setups to be heavier than one guy in a stripped out tub of a Justy....I wont worry the clutch issue another minute.
The GL engine arrived as a GL engine…and all harnesses airboxes pipes shafts etc…I never had the bike…wish I did just so I would have the cradle for the engine and then I could mod it to mount under the hood. I know I can get it running as is…its complete. It is also fuel injected WITH reverse…Whooo Hoooo yet another reason I chose the GL1800 electronically engaged reverse…with cruise control. I even have the digital instrument cluster…to mount in the car…
As far as considering the offset WET shaft…if you read this big thread you will see that I have considered that from the get go…The wet shaft is no issue as I have the GL driveshaft with all of its attachments…so I have the smooth machined portion that goes into the engine and turns into a shaft…so leakage will not be an issue as it was a non issue on the GL…The OFFSET…was my concern from the minute I pondered this project in 1986 when I was in J High school and all of 14 yrs old…YES I imagined a small car motorcycle engined project even before then…but it morphed into this a few yrs ago. Since we are fuel injected I have no fueling issues AT ALL…Now I have no clutch issues…I wont even bring the clutch up anymore I am so confident about it…
THE OFFSET is my major concern as it has been for many years, but even that I have it figured…I will draw up a diagram just so I dont have to describe it over and over…but basically its going to be a plate with mounts with two shafts going thru it…driveshaft turning into pulley on the other side of the plate…to other offset pulley…driven via belt…or belts…then back to driveshaft to pumpkin…thats all folks… I got it figured and just need to measure it out and make it a reality…
THE OTHER OPTION I THOUGHT OF…was to open up the tunnel in the car to allow for an offset shaft…broken into enuf pieces with enough U-joints to make the offset go away over the lenght of the shaft by the time it gets to the pumpkin…then put a thin aluminum skin over my wayward shaft…it isnt offset by that much when you consider the engine is up front and the pumpkin out back…the further apart they are, the slower you need to make the turn to make up the offset…Capice? They are apart in that sense by what 4 ft or more? Say 3-4 U joints and supports? This is a viable option as U-joints can tolerate more of an angle than we see in common useage…and I will try to keep that joint angle as shallow as possible… and I will support this shaft at integral support points so it wont have the chance to flop around due to imbalance…which wont be there bec I will have the shaft assy balanced…
Come to think of it the shaft offset is what 6 inches off center…to be made up in 4 or more feet via U-joints?..This isnt going to be ANY ISSUE…What am I worrying about!!!
I think Ive thought of everything…its been a LONG time for me pondering this…so if you think of it…I thought of it in the 80’s…LOL
The only thoght I can add is that this being a unibody you may want to go easy on cutting away the hump. But I have a feeling you’ve already thoght of that.
And have you considered a CV joint or two rather than 3-4 U-joints? CV joints can operate smoothly at large angles of articulation, and certainly a regular half-shaft from any econobox would handle the load without a problem.
I knew this before but just confirmed it again. The shaft is offset toward the right as you look at the engine from the back as though you were the pumpkin. So if you tried to install the engine under the hood in an offset manner it would need to go toward the drivers side of the car…which isnt good… HOWEVER…since it is offset toward the passenger side of the car that part of the firewall can be cut to allow for a crooked shaft…that will slowly straighten out by the time it gets to the rear… Then I can fab up a cover for the shaft inside the car…re-do the tunnel…
I think I am going to go for this idea rather than the adapter plate…UNLESS I see some sort of setup in the salvage yard or elsewhere…Maybe a small X-fer case from a suzuki samurai? But arent Xfer cases Geared down substantially also? Thatd be a problem too…I thought they were geared down but I may be wrong about that…I also thought of pirating the old CVT trans…maybe gutting it somehow and using it? AH…I dont know…I think the driveshaft idea is the cleanest and best way to go…maybe 3 u-joints over the course of 4 ish feet… I have seen driveshaft u-joints cocked at rather severe angles on 4X4 TRUCKS and Im not planning on approaching that sort of angle here…
Yeah I think this will be the way to go…Comments? Do you Concur or No? I really think thats gonna do it.
LOL MOUNTAINBIKE…YOU READ MY MIND…I was saying 3-4 U-joints just to show that I COULD use that many to alleviate the offset…But YES I think you are dead right that in reality I could do it with LESS…Obviously the less is more theory here and I will be trying to lean hard toward the least amount of joints and separations.
OOOH A CV JOINT!!! HOLY COW! WHY ON EARTH DIDNT I THINK OF THAT…OR DID I FORGET IT>… LOL ANYWAY…ME LIKEY. I will try to incorporate one… I dont know how I would support a CV joint/axle though…got to think about that. Some sort of bearing…Hey My Honda accord had an intermediate shaft with a bearing carrier on it…that may be helpful too…
Between that and a driveshaft one will win out in the end…whichever is easier and uncomplicated.
If you are looking for something fun, there is a movement, esp in England, toward something called, not a Lotus, but a Low Cost 7. There is a book written by a shop teacher in Massachusetts that will explain the process, provide diagrams, and parts lists. If you can figure out adapting a Goldwing six to a Subaru Justy, this might be your cup of tea. You need a donor Miata for suspension and steering components, and access to some welding equipment. You end up with a small two-seat roadster that actually looks akin to a Lotus 7. Right after the last Ice Age, I owned a Lotus 7, and have driven a Low Cost 7 with a Suzuki 1600 engine; the Low Cost is just as much fun, and waaaaaay cheaper.
Yes Sir DAVE…I have heard of those before and always considered a project like that…but thats BIG money for me at the moment…My finances arent near what they used to be lately…so. Yeah definitely a great project.
As for the Justy project…as soon as it warms up here I will begin…I will be shooting movies as well as tons of photos… Should be interesting…I will be posting a lot if not all of it on You Tube so…I will definitely keep you guys posted. This is gonna be fun for sure. I am looking forward to it.
I once saw a marine engine installation (in a sailboat) where the transmissions output was about a foot higher than the propeller shaft…Whoops!..The guy solved the problem with a couple of steel plates, a few sealed ball bearings and a double row chain drive between the two shafts. Ideal? No…But it worked fairly well. He lubed the open chain with motorcycle chain lube now and then. This would not work in a car…
Be careful how you load up the Honda’s output connection. It was not designed to support a long heavy driveshaft…The fact that it was wet is going to compound your engineering problems…At some point, you must change wet to dry…
What’s the redline on that engine? Something around 8000 RPM? What a song that will sing!
Understood…however the wet driveshaft output on the GL1800 is sealed and nonremoveable…so while it is wet…it wont leak unless the seal fails. It should be pretty damn reliable in that respect. Whichever way I go on propagating this output shaft into a driveshaft I will certainly have it properly supported the whole way back. I think Mountainbike suggested the use of a CV joint style axle…If I go this route I will use a system similar to that found on my Honda Accord…the one side is much longer than the other and in that instance they used an intermediate “half shaft” that the rest of the axle plugs into…this half shaft had a permanent bearing carrier installed on it at the halfway point I will try to utilize that style if I go with the CV joint style axles… I will be putting a lot of thought into this as the driveshaft hookup is really my biggest hurdle here…that and fabbing up an engine mount system…I dont have the Goldwing Frame so I cant use the frame as a cradle for the engine…if I could I would cut the frame apart and use its mounting points rather than having to start from scratch as I have to now. Then again the GL1800 fram was aluminum…that would have made me face an entirely different style of welding…one that I am not geared up for…I can weld steel all day but Aluminum is a different animal. We shall see… All in due time… I will take photos of the car and engine and all wiring before I start…stay tuned I will have a lot of photos and movies and will post them on U-tube…of course I will keep you all informed…I am sure many of you want to have a good lauh at me and this ugly little 3cyl car before it turns into the JustyWing…
Yes there should be…that would be super interesting. I might consider that after the vehicle is together ans I have fully tested everything from a robustness and reliability/cooling standpoint. That would be awesome to have a Turbo on there. I will have to look on the net to see how many have already put a turbo on the GL1800 I imagine somebody has done it more than once.
Then again with a power adder on there like that…my clutch comes back into play…No? Also I bet adding the Turbo properly along with an ECU re-flash etc… The cost of the correctly added and tuned Turbo will probably exceed the cost of the money in the entire car and Goldwing engine. I am currently under 3K by a very large margin…in fact I am not sure I got out of the 2K range really…I have had the car and GL1800 engine for over 2 years now. It is all inside the Justy at the moment…and I cant wait to start the project. I STILL dont have a garage like I used to when I put these parts together…and doing it without my car lift…which I still have…wont be much fun. The way it stands now this will literally be a shadetree operation. As much as I dont want to have to do it this way, thats all I have at the moment. Hopefully my situation will change by the time I get started…I really want my shop and my lift back before I start the JustyWing… At the very least the lift will make things FAR FAR easier than Jack Stands…to be honest I am not sure it is possible to do this without my lift. We shall see we shall see…
Does anyone live near me and want to lend a hand…and or their lift? Or just the space? I would love to be working on this right now and would be in my little shop… Like I said I still have my Benwill Professional car lift, I just need a place to put it up and use it. If so…let me know I live in King of Prussia, PA
A neighbor of mine across the street used to own a BMW 750 motorcycle (Boxer Twin) and he turbocharged that bike along with dual spark plugging the cylinder heads.
The bike was an absolute terror when the throttle was wicked open. Keeping the front wheel down was a problem.
LOL…I bet it was! I wouldnt Turbo a N/A engine (for many other reasons than I list)…and I would especially NOT turbo a N/A engine if it wasnt fuel injected. Trying to tune a Turbo with a Carb is a nightmare…but I would imagine with the internet these days we could find the correct jetting numbers for the carbs…without too much hunting around for the right mixture…Hunting around can result in some fun catastophic engine failures. Also Fuel injection makes for much better power delivery and obviously much smoother “carburation” I bet his bike was basically like POWER ON WHEEL UP…POWER OFF Wheels on the ground…NO IN BETWEEN…LOL. Shouldve entered the circus with a bike like that…lol.
I am not opposed to the idea, but like I said…thats lots o money I know it will be. I still need to verify the integrity of the build before I go looking for power adders. Perhaps I would try Nitrous if I was lacking in the power dept. I never really though it would be very underpowered.
I have to figure out what this will be like with this engine in it. I have to figure the weight of the Just engine and Trans…subtract that from the Justy’s OEM weight and then figure in for the GL engine…to get an idea of performance.
What do you estimate the performance level to be with the GL1800 under the hodd…with no change in gear ratios…Unless I found that the Justy rear in combo with the GL trans was geared was too tall…then I would have to make proper adjustments…
Do you think this will actually be FAST? Or do you think it will just “WORK”
I cant seem to get my head around this. What do you guys think…this has been elusive to me for a LOOONG time. I believe it will just be adequate and maybe feel a little faster…but not a roadburner…I could be totally wrong tho…Interested in your opinions.
Do you think this will actually be FAST? Or do you think it will just “WORK”
This will only work likely. 100HP is not much considering the vehicle’s weight.
The only similiar type vehicle produced was the Mazda MX-3 with the 1.8L V6(~130HP). I think it could do 0-60 in 8.5 seconds which is not that fast by today’s standards.
I think I might have to agree… The Wing has 120 Hp and 123 Ft/Lbs of torque…I do think it will be spirited driving…not truly FAST…BUT its definitely going to be fun…NO? Compare that to the Justy’s 73 Hp and 71 Ft/Lbs of torque and we do have quite a bit of difference here…
+50HP and +52Ft/lbs is really nothing to sneeze at… Hell I think the Goldwing beats out the 02 HOnda Civic in numbers…so its got to have a great fun factor…Not blazing fast but I am settled on the fact that it HAS to be FUN and SPIRITED Driving…
Here are some quotes from some reviews of the bike: They seem promising to me…
With an even 100 foot-pounds of torque on tap at a mere 2250 rpm, the big six yanks harder down low than even Suzuki’s Hayabusa (which manages 99.0 foot-pounds at its 6750 rpm peak). The two-wheel Torque King GL finally peaks with an imposing 109.9 foot-pounds at 4250 rpm. That sort of grunt lets it pull smoothly from 35 mph to an indicated 135 in top gear. But enough of this. That’s Interstate 71. This is the throttle. Twist it, and traffic shrinks into the rear-view mirrors at a heady clip.
The GL1800 is equipped with a four-stroke six-cylinder engine with two valves per cylinder. A compression ratio of 9.8:1 coupled with a bore and stroke of 2.9 and 2.8 inches produces an engine displacement of 1832 cc, a maximum power of 119.20 horsepower at 5500 rpm, and a maximum torque of 123.2 pounds-feet at 4000 rpm. The engine is controlled by a six speed shaft drive transmission.
It looks like projected Turbo output of a GL1800 engine is 180HP and 200Ft/lbs of torque
Now that would make for a FAST JUSTYWING without question…however no one it seems has done this already…It has high dollars written ALL OVER IT… No thanks… I’m happy with it stock. But of course the idea is always floating around in your head…lol
