We used to have an excellent vocational program that included carpentry, machining, welding, you name it. Then at some point they fell out of favor and called themselves a college and offered two year accounting, nursing, records, and so on. Big mistake. Now businesses are crying for qualified vo tec grads in areas like refrigeration, machining, welding, robotics, etc. Lots of open jobs going unfilled at high wages. So the educational leadership is behind the 8 ball and trying to update like they should have done all along-that’s their job. The award winning automotive program was dropped and after a public outcry, started up again. Lo and behold some are coming to the conclusion that not everyone should spend $100K to major in Psychology or Sociology and work at McDucks and might be happier repairing boilers for $80K a year. Yeah and I’m a firm believer in education and voted for a big tax increase but gotta call a spade a spade. Some of these people should have nothing to do with vo tec education.
@bing. Here is how education works. Schools spend inordinate amounts of time drilling children for the statewide multiple choice exams. This prepares the students for college where they sit in large classes and take multiple choice exams. The students graduate from college with skills in taking multiple choice exams. Unfortunately, the ability to take multiple choice exams isn’t a marketable skills. I would like to see all students have to take industrial arts classes as part of the curriculum beginning in upper elementary and junior high school. This would help students learn to appreciate the students who have technical skills. Students would see the applications of geometry and fractions.
I have great respect for people with technical skills. I don’t have the dexterity with my hands to be efficient at doing many automobile and home repairs.
Yup!
That holds true in most of the counties in my state.
The OP mentioned that when they tried to start the car it made a little noise, then nothing. This was information previously withheld. If it was a neutral safety problem it would not make any noise at all.
It depends upon what that noise is. When a key is turned to the RUN or START positions various relays not related to the starter motor could click or whatever.
I’ve always admired the companies that picked up the slack by investing in their workers and training them themselves or sending them to training. I’m often pleased to see community colleges doing such training because they tend to offer better financial aid and be less corrupt than the private vocational schools, but when a community college becomes too closely affiliated with local car dealerships, and money starts flowing back and forth in terms of donations and the dealership owners gaining influence in the curriculum, the relationship can easily become corrupt.
The community college where I used to work invested millions of taxpayer dollars to build a technology center that housed an automotive program. It ended up being shockingly under-utilized.
I know I’ve mentioned this book several times in this forum already (and some of you might be sick of hearing about it), but Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work by Matthew B. Crawford suggests the trend away from vocational education - especially at the high school level - is a societal change, so blaming an institute of higher learning for getting out of vocational education might be misplaced if demand has diminished. I don’t think the answer to this particular problem is to suggest community colleges get into vocational education in places where there is low demand or local private schools are doing a good job providing such education.
This particular area seems like a good opportunity for privatization of a previously public service. I don’t support privatization of public goods and services in everything, but I do support it where it works well. If there is a demand for vocational education, I’d like to see a market-based solution emerge, and in many places, such as Daytona, Florida, it has, and it is thriving.
I agree with Matthew B. Crawford that this problem is a result of parental pressure to send children to college for a four-year degree, whether or not they want to attend college or have an aptitude for classroom-based education. Vocational trades need intelligent workers too, especially the ones who don’t thrive in a classroom environment.
Or the absence of noise that was there (hvac/radio) before the key got turned to the start position can sometimes be misinterpreted as making a different noise.
Where is “here”? Just curious.
Minneapolis area.
When I prepared for the CPA exam, my business law instructor made us write briefs. (summaries of legal issues in a case.)
Students in the big state university did multiple choice tests, instead. On the exam, where they were expected to write briefs, they almost all bombed it, whereas for me it was a waltz through.
I got it all the first time, except theory. I did not then and still do not think accounting has a lot of theory. It seems to be mostly rules and laws and standards, but I did get it second try.
I did not leave my diagnostic work. I didn’t get the CPA for career reasons. Due to my family situation, I had zero self-esteem, and graduating summa cum laude and passing the exam while working full-time was good for me, heh, heh. Not to mention making enough money on stocks to pay our house off 15 years early, and making a 50% down payment on a large house in Mexico City.
The problem was, with a young family, I could not afford the cut in pay to work as a CPA.
Twenty years after retiring, I recently learned that the job I retired from in 1997 still pays without overtime the same as average pay for a CPA in that state.
So, yes, an academic degree is not always a best idea.
My son-in-law says the man who cleans his a/c tells him he really loves to submit a bill for $400 to a Ph.D. for half a days work on his a/c. 
As an alternative you might consider taking it to a dealer whose mechanics are trained for your specific vehicle. I know the shop rates are horrendous, but I would think you’d have a better chance of getting it fixed correctly there.
Not necessarily. Dealerships have had some of the worst diagnosticians I’ve encountered. Not to say all dealership mechanics are this way (there’s at least one on this forum whom I respect), but a lot of them expect the car’s computer to tell them what to replace, and then they replace it. If that doesn’t work, they’re completely lost.
Shadowfax brings up some very good points
Having wrenched at both fleets and dealership, I can say the mentality is quite different, both on the parts of the mechanics, as well as the management
I’m not necessarily saying one is better or worse, though, as I wouldn’t want to offend anybody at this moment
There are limitations for both types of shops, and there are also strengths for both
A good mechanic will learn to adapt and overcome, will use the strengths to his advantage, and won’t let the limitations prevent him from performing a proper diagnosis and repair. This often means thinking outside of the box, so to speak. It’s a valuable, perhaps unquantifiable skill, in my book. And some guys aren’t very good at that.
Just curious maybe i missed it , but what were the diagnostic codes he pulled?
WTF?? For real, ditch that guy pronto, something dont smell right with this.
Edit, one other thing you said before it was driving and would stall? Then it wouldnt start. When you turn the key to the on position without going all the way, just till the dash and door alarms come on, but not cranking the engine. Do you hear anything from the front like on the motor or even coming from the dash? A whirring noise or buzz? Relays that tell the car the key is in the on position, sometimes a bad ignition switch can stall a car while driving as well as not letting it start.