You would be shocked at the number of posters who do just that. Come here first and ask “for the best shop in Springfield”.
Given that @davesmopar posted the need for 16+ hours for the job, that $700 FCP Euro chain set is the tip of the iceberg. BMW shops near me charge $240 an hour. Good indi shops charge $160 to $200. So $3200 for labor, $700 parts seems mighty close to $4K.
Any cheaper than that would fall into the… You can have it done cheap, or have it done correctly, but not both.
Thanks, Mustangman. That’s what I was thinking — $10k is insane but $4k makes sense, sadly. And cheaper is at my own peril. I found a shop that quoted me “$4-6k” but they also did a preliminary inspection on it for me (at no charge) and confirmed a few things for me:
There’s no slack in the chain (which was my primary concern)
The car’s not throwing any codes to suggest the timing is off
All of the noises the engine is making are typical of the N20 — which is pretty clattery
The bought my goodwill with the free check. BMW wouldn’t even entertain checking the tension. I told them I knew there was a BMW specialty tool for it (there is) and they just flat out refused.
Now, the one thing the shop couldn’t do without removing the head was to see if the guides might be cracked or damaged. The shop owner thought I was doing the right thing by checking now, especially given BMW recommends the chain be replaced at 100k miles. He also thought I was in good shape (for now) and didn’t think I needed to do anything immediately — although he also reminded me that the guides could be cracked and we wouldn’t know without digging deeper. So, for the time being, I’m going to set aside the cash and hold off on the work. We don’t put a lot of miles on the car so we’ve got a while before we get near 100k but I’ll plan on doing it in the next year or two — unless it starts getting noisier sooner.
I don’t see how checking the chain tension would resolve the problem. If the complaint is engine noise/timing chain noise, it seems that the chain guides are worn. The dealer technicians would know this from their experience with the vehicles. How can the complaint be resolved without replacing the timing chain and guides?
BMW “recommends” that the timing chains be replaced every 100,000 miles??? Just for comparison, how often does Toyota recommend replacing the timing chain on a Corolla or Camry? How often does Honda recommend replacing the timing chain on a Civic or Accord? How often does GM recommend replacing the timing chain on a Chevrolet Impala or Malibu?
I have owned vehicles with a timing belt, which specified a replacement interval of 10 years/100,000 miles, though most engines with a timing belt recommend every 6 years/60,000 miles.
Where did he get that information? The attached link shows the service manual and it never states that the timing chain should be checked, let alone replaced, at 100,000 miles. I also checked at NHTSA.gov and they have manufacturer communications that address the noise you hear. BMW extended the warranty to 7 years or 70,000 miles and you are way past that now. They explicitly state in one of the PDFs that I read that there was no recall. If you decide to pay for a timing chain replacement, get the water pump chain replaced too. Both are listed in the warranty extension as problematic.
Bmw expects chains to fail around 100k so they recommend changing them around 100k. Toyota chains don’t fail so Toyota does not recommend changing them
Yes, and if you read the full NHTSA report: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10204534-9999.pdf you’ll see that they stop covering claims at 100,000 miles. I’ve spoken with a number of BMW techs and shops at this point and everyone familiar with the issue suggests getting it done by 100,000 miles. People unfamiliar with it tell me I shouldn’t ever have to touch the timing chain in my car. It’s a safe bet I won’t be patronizing those folks.
And, of course there was no recall. The warranty extension was the result of a settlement pursuant to which they admit no guilt or responsibility. Do you have any idea how expensive a recall would be? They’d have to replace the timing chains in ever vehicle that’s the subject of the report. Instead, they agreed to partially reimburse people whose engines grenaded themselves (how kind) and people who were lucky enough to replace their timing chain right before they shredded their engines. If you’re familiar with these types of claims, the result is very common. There are too many examples to name. Google “Porsche 996 class action” if you want another.
Oy, feel free to research it or, even better, speak with a BMW tech. The X3 has a timing chain, not a belt. If you’re going to condescend, you might want to do your research first.
The N20’s timing chain guides and tensioners are made out of plastic. When they crack the chains become prone to failure and, since the the N20 is an interference engine, when they fail it’s basically fatal for the engine.
BMW NA has officially denied all responsibility for the failures (just as parties typically do in settlements). They agreed to extend the warranties on the cars to 7yrs/70k miles at a point when most of the impacted cars were over 7yrs and probably over 70k miles, and cutoff responsibility at 100k miles because (while the won’t put it in writing) that’s when the engines started grenading themselves. Read the NHTSA report yourself: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10204534-9999.pdf
Good thing I offered all of the relevant information up front and did my research on shops for resorting to faceless people on the Internet…and still got treated like I didn’t. lol [shrug]
Yes, @George, thank you - I was referring to my dealer when I said “BMW". Sorry any lack of clarity on my end. BMW NA and the mothership aren’t saying anything to admit fault.
And, @Nevada, no — actually, nobody advised me to blindly wait until 100k. Most dealers won’t talk about it at all but the tech at my dealer has been a little more forthcoming (and no, I’m not naming them or the dealership). I drive out of my way to use them because the dealer closer to me is awful. When the serpentine belt in the car failed, it took out the coolant lines to the transmission. I called the dealer to get an estimate on replacing them and topping off the transmission fluid. The tech said, “we usually advise our customers to replace the transmission since they’re not really serviceable.” Thankfully, there are like 7 or 8 BMW dealers within 30 miles of me
Anyway, my tech, and others I’ve talked to online, all suggested doing it before 100k (100k at the latest) unless it was showing signs of more imminent failure (timing codes, slack in the chain, different noises than it’s currently making).
It was more of a casual “that’s a $10k job” passing comment.
BMW service rates in my area are insane. I got a quote of $880 to replace the fuel tank purge valve in one car. I bought the OEM BMW part from FCP Euro for about $120 and replaced it on my own in about an hour. It would have taken me less time if I wasn’t overly cautious about breaking the electronic connectors. The dealer wanted to charge about double for the part and the rest was labor. The same dealer charges $75 just to reset the annual service light after an oil change.
Even my Porsche dealership doesn’t rake me over the coals like BMW.
I wonder how that design passed BMW’s product-quality standard? It seems like Engineering pre-product testing should have demonstrated the problem occurring before it reached the production floor. Maybe there is just no practical way to test this for 100K + miles.
I’m in CT about 40 miles out of NYC — off the top of my head, these are all close by:
BMW of Bridgeport
BMW of Ridgefield
BMW of Mt. Kisco
BMW of Darien
BMW of Greenwich
BMW of Mamaroneck
BMW of Westchester
Within an hour drive, there are easily another 5 or more. Finding a dealer isn’t a problem. You’d think competition would drive down prices. It doesn’t, at least not here.