1990 Eagle Talon TSI AWD Rich Mixture

eagle
talon

#1

Hello all thanks in advance



I have a '90 talon with 125K miles.



When the car is started cold in any weather condition it starts fine and runs perfectly. It idles well, turbo charger is strong, power is smooth and it will drive this way for hours until I turn it off.



After this, if I don’t wait until the car cools off completely (a couple hours at least), it is instantly undriveable due to a very rich fuel mixture. The car sputters, misses, coughs and the turbo gauge is all over the place. I can be driving for two hours, turn the car of and then immediately back on and it bam it turns into a '73 F150 with a bad carb. At first this problem wasn’t too bad as the car would smoothen out after a few minutes, but now it only gets worse.



It has new plugs and wires, filters, EGR, and IAC valve. Then ECM gives no errors. I have also tried kicking the car numerous occasions; that doesn’t help.



As it’s the last one of these nightmares one the road anyway, I should think about just having it bronzed and putting it on the mantle; not sure what to do.



Any advice on this problem would be greatly appreciated




#2

In place of a choke there is some sort of “cold start” system incorporated into the fuel injection. It seems your car activates the cold start system and feeds in too much gas when the car is warmed up. Not many of these cars were made and even less are still around so good luck finding someone who knows what to do to fix it.

I think this was a Mitsubishi sold by Chrysler dealers.


#3

Yes it is Really a Mitsubish Eclipse. Thanks for the help


#4

You might want to remove the hose from the compressor side of the turbo, and wiggle and spin the compressor blades. If the wheel wobbles a lot, or if the wheel comes in contact with the turbo housing, guess what the problem is?

Tester


#5

Dont know, my bearing is shot? I don’t understand how that could explain my problems.
the current turbo is on 60k


#6

Since this only occurs when the engine is hot and shortly after it’s been shut off then an internal fuel leak could be behind this. (injector leaking off, fuel pressure regulator dribbling, etc.)
The car is 21 years old so it could easily be either one; or both.

When the engine is cold it will burn all of that excess gasoline with no problem but when hot the engine is basically flooded to some extent.

This could be verified by connecting a fuel pressure gauge, running it for a while before shutting it off, and then watching the gauge to see how far and how fast the pressure drops.


#7

“The turbo gauge is all over the place.”

Tester


#8

No doubt that my injectors prolly have issues. Though I have been on a joy-ride and, like an idiot stalled at a light. Start the car right back up and then . . joy-ride over. Dont think an appreciable ammount of fuel could have leaked in just a couple seconds?


#9

So my compressors is grinding/starting/letting go maybe? I will surely take your advice and check it. But why would this not be a problem for hours of hard driving and then be different after I, say, stop for gas. This is not a daily driver, just a fun car.


#10

When the engine is started cold, the turbo is able to spin. As you keep driving the vehicle the turbo will still spin. As soon as you shut the engine off hot, the turbo stops spinning and heat soaks. The oil in the turbo bearings coke from this heat. If the coking is severe enough the turbo bearings bind when the engine is restarted hot. The turbo can no longer spin properly to introduce the proper amount of air for the throttle position, and the engine floods out. Let it cool back down, and it’s fine.

Tester


#11

Ohhhh. Makes more sense now. Much appreciated


#12

These cars were notorious for their “hot start” problems. I would be willing to bet you have one or more faulty injectors, or possibly the wire harness has broken wires. Another thing to check is the O2 sensor, although I would do the injectors first. Unless you have a manual boost gauge, the stock boost gauge is the car’s estimation (through airflow, temperature and air mass) at what pressure the turbo is boosting at. I would highly doubt your turbo has anything to do with this problem.

Check out this site: http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html for copious amounts of DSM (Talon, Eclipse and Laser) information and repair guides.


#13

Your last post may change things a bit. During this hot restart are you keeping your foot off of the accelerator pedal?

If so, maybe this is an Idle Air Valve issue and next time try depressing the pedal and see what happens.


#14

I can think of 2 injector tests, which one or yours do you suggest for a car of the OP’s vintage and type injection?


#15

I never start with my foot on the accelerator. I have though recently replaced the idla air valve.


#16

The OP seconds this. Be it my problem or not, they are something I have neglected. I bought the car new and have only ever just dumped cleaner in the tank

also thanks for the link


#17

I had this exact same problem w/ my 88 Mitsubishi Starion (your car’s daddy). In my case, crusty injector wires and/or dirty injectors were the culprit. Went ahead and sent the injectors for cleaning at Witchhunter, and soldered on a couple new pigtails. Never had the problem again.


#18

The only way to be sure is to send the injectors to be cleaned and balanced by a shop that has the proper flow testers. I solved my problem by doing this: when the car runs poorly leave it running and disconnect the spark plug wire from each cylinder and put it back before moving on to the next. If the engine didn’t change or run rougher that cylinder was OK. This could be difficult at this stage though considering it is a starting issue. Eventually it will start to happen while driving.

Also just for your knowledge, 1G cars (90-94) had different size turbos and injectors depending if it was a manual or automatic transmission. Manuals had 450cc injectors with a 14B turbo. Autos had 390cc injectors with a 13G turbo, also the cams were ground to provide higher torque at lower RPMs.