Since I purchased this Bus new, 30 years ago, it has had a periodic starting problem. It isn’t ‘bad’ starter or cellunoid, it is something else. It is as though the starter gets ‘hot’, the vehicle will not start sometimes for hours. I can always pop start the vehicle but I am getting to old for much of this. 30 years of mechanics have been unable to fix the difficulty. However, one mechanic many years ago did something ‘simple’ and remedied the problem. Then I had the engine rebuilt, that mechanic disappeared and here I am. Does anyone have any idea what ould cause the problem ? Thanks
It’s most likely a marginally bad solenoid that refuses to work when hot. Why do you rule it out?
By the way, the VW Bus is a rolling deathtrap. Great for nostalgic hippies, but you wouldn’t catch me in one.
You have a hot start problem, very common in old VWs and other cars (My lawn tractor, too actually).
Basically, you need to install a relay in the starter circuit. Take the wire that energizes the solenoid and use that as the relay control circuit, pin 85. Pin 86 to ground. Take a wire direct from the battery (with a 30A fuse inline) to the power circuit on the relay, pin 30, and wire pin 87 to the solenoid.
Do a google search for vw hot start relay for more info.
The first suspect should be the transaxle starter bushing. Most starters have a boss that is part of the starter case and this supports the armature.
The VW air-cools do not have this. They rely on a bushing that is mounted in the transaxle case and this is something that your mechanic SHOULD have replaced when he rebuilt the engine.
When the bushing wears this allows the starter armature to sag a bit and it rubs against the field coils in the starter motor.
There is always the possibility the starter could be failing but you could try replacing the bushing first and see if that fixes it.
I don’t know if you will attempt this repair yourself or not but it’s not difficult to do. Maybe unusual if you’re not familiar with it. The repair goes like this if you do it yourself (after procuring a new bushing).
Disconnect battery; remove starter.
Use a thread tap of a size that will fit snugly into the new bushing and thread this tap into the old bushing in the transaxle case(you’ll need a light and have to stretch to eyeball the bushing). Turn the tap into the old bushing until it bottoms out and keep turning until it forces the bushing out. The bushing is a “blind bushing” which means it is in a dead-end hole and there is only one way out.
The new bushing should be of a material called Oillite. This is a porous bronze type material and the next step is critical. Place the bushing on a thumb, fill it will heavy motor oil, and place the other thumb on top of the oil filled bushing. Apply pressure for a minute or so until you see oil ooze out of the pores on the outside of the bushing.
Use a bolt with a nut/washer as a driver and tap the new bushing into place. Reinstall starter and see if that fixes it up.
This is a common problem with air-cools and I’ve done a bunch of them for what it’s worth.
Why do you say it is not a bad starter or solenoid? What exactly happens or does not happen when you turn the switch?
As a car ages, the wiring in the starter circuit and the ignition switch become more resistant as the wiring and contacts oxidize. Over time, there is enough of a voltage drop that it cannot energize the starter circuit anymore. For some reason, old VWs are especially susceptible to this because they ran a large amount of amperage over a dinky ignition switch. Eventually, the ignition switch will burn out and fail.
There should always have been a relay in this circuit. Modern cars do it this way as well. I even had to do this to my John Deere lawn tractor- they actually make a relay kit to solve just this problem.
You might also try cleaning the connection between the grounding strap and engine.
This adding a solenoid fix was something we did for the 6V cars.This is a 78.I never once had to do this to this vintage/Type VW.Problem most likely lies in some ordinary electrical system maintiance concern.Do the basics
I beg to differ, it is a VERY common problem in 12V air cooled VWs. And you’re not adding another solenoid, you’re adding a SPST relay to the circuit. The wiring gets “tired” for lack of a better word, as does the ignition switch. Not only is introducing a relay into the circuit fixing the problem, it also will prolong the life of the ignition switch, as it lowers the amperage running through it when it has to energize the starter solenoid.
Here’s a link from the folks at Wolfsburg West on how this is done:
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wired_03_01/wired_03_01.htm
I’m going to respectfully disagree on a number of points. The old method of adding a relay was used on the older VWs with 6 volt systems and the normal way to go was by using a Ford fender mount starter solenoid mounted next to the starter.
This was not done because of “excessive amperage” at all. It was done because of the long length of wire involved from the 6V battery in the rear to the ign. switch up front and then back to the rear again, the number of connections, and time/age which corroded or scaled connectors and caused a serious voltage drop downwards from the original 6 volts.
Starter solenoids, even 6 volt, use very little current at all.
The double relay mentioned on the fuel injected VW Bus does NOT have starter solenoid current going through it at all. The relays would fail at times due to age and electrical load of the FI and fuel pump but not because of the starter solenoid.
The double relay only received a solenoid pulse from the starter to signal the ECM and operate the cold start valve, which in turn was controlled by the thermo time switch.
The double relay has nothing to do with starter solenoid operation.
I worked for VW for a long time and never saw a relay failure or ignition switch failure due to starter solenoid current draw; even on 12 volt systems.
Thank-you for your thoughts. Your time and information are greatly appreciated. Now I will try to find a good VW mechanic in Salt Lake City todo the work. all the best, Brian www.SavantClair.com
Thank-you for your thoughts. Your time and information are greatly appreciated. Now I will try to find a good VW mechanic in Salt Lake City todo the work. all the best, Brian www.SavantClair.com
Thank-you for your thoughts. Your time and information are greatly appreciated. Now I will try to find a good VW mechanic in Salt Lake City todo the work. all the best, Brian www.SavantClair.com
Thank-you for your thoughts. Your time and information are greatly appreciated. Now I will try to find a good VW mechanic in Salt Lake City todo the work. all the best, Brian www.SavantClair.com
Thank-you for your thoughts. Your time and information are greatly appreciated. Now I will try to find a good VW mechanic in Salt Lake City todo the work. all the best, Brian www.SavantClair.com
I have had the solenoid replaced several times, as well as the starter, and the problem continues. Thanks for your input.
I have had the solenoid replaced several times, as well as the starter, and the problem continues. When I turn the ignition key there is no sound at all, however, the lights work, the radio will work, etc. but no ignition.
i worked on vw’s for 10 yrs before opening my own shop. problem was on both 12 and 6 .most fixes were the added soleniod switch. had a few come in where the mechanic that ovhauled the engine forgot the ground strap causing excessive draw
There’s a very simple method for determining if the starter and/or transaxle bushing is bad. Perform a starter current draw test, both hot and cold.
Disconnect the coil wire and after an initial 300 or so amp surge the starter should draw about 125-150 amps at a steady cranking speed. (Dependent on oil weight, engine temp, engine and starter wear, etc.)
I only mention the transaxle bushing because it seems that few people realize this bushing can cause a starter motor to appear to be “draggin” and heat makes the situation even worse.
Since the vehicle was purchased new and the engine has been overhauled, this tells me the starter motor has been through a considerable number of start cycles; all of which is whaling away on that bushing.