I would just do what the owner's manual says and stop obsessing over it."Owner's manual? We don need no stinkin' owner's manual." She said it's a BOOK. But I'll take your advice and read it when she can find it. Toyota engineers should know what is best - when it does not come to nuclear power plants.
The cheaper tools can round off the flats on the plastic canister then you get to buy a better tool AND a new canister…Toyota somehow feels they are going to save the planet by getting rid of the almost fool-proof spin-on steel oil filters…
@RobertGift
“But I’ll take your advice and read it when she can find it.”
You’ll take MY advice and read it NOW
http://drivers.lexus.com/t3Portal/document/omms/L-MMS-13ES350/pdf/MY13_Lexus%20ES%20350_WSG_lr.pdf
LOL
^ Hey, thanks db!
(But I can’t see this on the commode, where such manuals are properly read.)
My Toyota dealer charges $60 for a full synthetic oil change and filter and the 3rd one is free in Lockport NY
Car manufacturers have a problem. Buyers are getting pretty sophisticated in how they choose the car to buy, and one thing the buyers compare is the amount of routine maintenance needed. Everything else being equal, the buyers – time burdened due to their need for two incomes to afford a house payment, taking the kids to play dates and soccer practices etc. – will often choose the car that needs the least maintenance. Think about it from their perspective. When you don’t have any spare time, the thing you least want to do with your time is take an hour and a half out of your day to take the the car in for an oil change.
So the sales force complains if the maintenance schedule has a lot of items in it. The manufacturers respond – not necessarily by making the car design more robust and therefore needing less maintenance – but simply by removing items from the maintenance schedule. They are in the business of selling cars after all, and if a lot of items in the published maintenance schedule reduces the sales numbers, well, you can guess what they’ll do.
So the bottom line is that new car owners have to keep this in mind when reading the maintenance schedules. Here’s what to ask to yourself: Is this maintenance schedule designed for my interests, or the car manufacturer’s interests?
Me, I’d change the oil at intervals no longer than 6,000 miles. And more frequently in stop and go conditions.
"Buyers …will often choose the cars that need the least maintenance. "
Forgive me for saying this
@GeorgeSanJose
Maybe I have miss read the general idea, but…
I have to confess then, I am pretty naive and everyone of my friends are who have bought a car in my recent memory as they have never mentioned the amount of required regular maintenance as a factor what so ever.
As a matter of fact, the first time they or I were aware of any maintenance intervals was after we buy the car. I and all the people I know just assume every new car they buy will require the same Or less maintenance and specialty cars with AWD etc might require a little more. They generally appreciate good reliable service from a car, one that looks good to them and one that meets their needs. I have never heard anyone say they bought one car over another because it had less required maintenance or their scheduled maintenance intervals were shorter of longer.
I have never seen it as a regular factor in the ratings that CR gives cars.
@Oldtimer11
When I priced oil changes at the independent vs the dealer, they were higher. The synthetic oil change has a rebate that makes the cost of the synthetic EQUAL to the cost of the mineral Oil change. I found regardless of the different intervals and discounting them as a reason, there is no reason not to have synthetic oil in my car.
"... there is no reason not to have synthetic oil in my car"
Should I use a synthetic oil in our 2008 Expedition emergencyehicle?
Manual calls for Motorcraft 5W20 synthetic blend. $18 at Walmart. 90k miles now.
Not to continue this whole thing, but I’ve got three cars with oil life monitors. One requires 0-20 which is only a synthetic or a Honda blend. The car has no idea whether or not full synthetic, a syn blend, or dino oil is in it. The oil life diminishes at the same rate.
"Should I use a synthetic oil in our 2008 Expedition…"
I could only answer a question like that this way. The recommended oil change by the manufacturer of my 4Runner is 5k miles with mineral oil. Now, @MikeInNh has the near same vehicle using that regiment with well over two hundred and maybe close to 300k miles. Even though I feel I could get better service from a synthetic even using a little longer interval, why bother ? I won’t have 250 k miles till it’s over twenty to twenty five years old and it will be traded or sold in the scrap yard and long gone before then. So, my feeling is, if you put high mileage in short order on a car, it may be worth it but with this proviso.
I would contact either the manufacturer on specifics for varying from what was recommended or get on forums related to that vehicle ( they have never steered me wrong) and talk to many who have done it. IMHO, several guys like @MikeInNh for example, are a personal owners with no commercial ties and would be as reliable a source for my car as some others with experience with yours would be. Forums related to specific vehicles like your car or a 4Runner or whatever have been the most reliable place for specific info. on specific cars for me for years. That’s how many get questions answered.
@Bing
I believe because it monitors the conditions in the car. It does not monitor actual wear or the actual conditions of the oil. Varying conditions like temperature rises for example, would have an effect on oil change interval regardless of the oil. What it would not tell you is, the syn oil did not break down as much as the mineral and could easily stay in there much long. People mistaken these monitor devices as little chemistry labs…they are not as you well know. They only respond to sensors giving indirect readings in conditions like temp, like speed over time etc. that the car goes through, then recommends the oil change based on that. The only way to really tellis to extract the oil and have it tested at different intervals. I believe then you could see the comparable difference in oil performance over time.
^ Apparently the Expedition’s system DOES shorten the oil change interval based upon abuse.
Drove emergent, 229 miles: more aggressive accelerations, much of that distance at 105 mph against headwinds.
I always drive as gently as possible and was concerned what stresses were being imposed on the engine and drive train.
Seemed thathe Change Oil indication appeared sooner than I had expected. (But I was not keeping track so maybe I had already traveled the 5000 oil mileage interval).
Cheaper to change the oil and filter than cost of delivering a sample and testing it.
On three vehicles, I have used 10w30 synthetic oil (Mobil One and Castrol Syntec) with 7500 mile intervals and all have gone over 180k, no oil issues, no oil loss and are still on the road. So I am confidant that that generation of synthetic oil is adequate for 7500 mile intervals.
I also used to go two cycles on the OLM on the Saturn, about 11,000 mile intervals for oil changes with the same type oil, only the cheap WalMart Super Tech synthetic 10w30, but it started using oil at about 80k miles. I switched to dino and changed on the OLM cycle, about 5500 miles ever since and it has 275k on it now. Saturn’s are notorious for using oil though and I don’t think mine os too bad at 1500 miles/qt right now.
The 0w20 generation of synthetic oil is supposed to be better. If so, then 10k intervals may be appropriate, time will tell.
I have friend with an 07 civic, 270k miles. He always followed the OLM and changed the oil anywhere from 6k to 11k miles. No problems yet.
I am going with the 10k intervals on my 2013 prius, its a lease but if I do keep it I will stick with the 10 k intervals. I am tired of over maintaining stuff and it does not make a difference in value or service life.
European cars have something like 15k intervals, it will be fine.
^ Why would the FIRST oil change in a brand new engine not be sooner?
Because the parts are more precision and they are broken in at the factory - as previously stated?
I hope so.
I am not concerned about oil breakdown. I am concerned about tiny particals being abrasive and causing wear.
Have heard that the toilet paper canister filters have greatly extended engine life because they keep the oil so clean.
“Have heard that the toilet paper canister filters have greatly extended engine life because they keep the oil so clean.”
…and you actually believe this?
Why would car manufacturers spend more money on pleated media filters if they could simply buy rolls of TP for filtration purposes?
The bottom line is…
Don’t believe all of the scuttlebutt that you read on the internet.
Uh oh, don’t get us going on “toilet paper” oil filters (they are worthless).
My friend had a toilet paper filter in his GMC Carry-All.
During several oil changes I unwound some paper from the roll so that it would tightly fit in the canister.
His oil was always amazingly clean. His engine lasted forever. No engine work or valve jobs.
Yes, it was more of a mess than a pleated media screw-on filter.
(Never read about it anywhere.)
Really worthless?
Try soaking a roll of toilet paper in oil. Then try to get more oil to filter through it.
You’ll have a big, clumpy, lumpy, glob of mush falling apart in your hands. You will not have a filter.
Toilet paper is made to wipe away materials too thick in consistency to flow and then to disintegrate in water. Saturated, it probably has the flow characteristics of concrete mix. I was always amazed that people actually tried using it for oil filters. But I guess people will believe just about anything.
If this all sounds like I’m exaggerating… I ain’t!