Many years ago, a NYC-based friend of mine insisted that I didn’t need a car to commute to my job, as it was only ~12 miles away. I tried explaining to him that this would require me to ride two different buses (one on a North-South route, and one on an East-West route), and that their schedules weren’t coordinated, thus likely causing me to wait 15-20 minutes to catch the second bus.
Then, once the second bus got me as close as possible to my job, I would have had to walk–in all types of weather-- about 1/2 mile–on a road with no sidewalk.
In theory, buses are an ideal commuting solution. In reality, they don’t work well enough for many people to use them. In my case, instead of a 15-20 minute drive, using public transportation (and my feet) would have resulted in a minimum of 50 minutes for my commute.
I had a coworker that decided to take the train in to work during the summer months. He put up with trying to coordinate his commute with the train schedule. Sometimes he had to stay late if he missed his normal train. Not great for a family man with young kids. A couple times running to try not to miss it. The station was about a mile from work. Great exercise! Except, no one could predict the weather 100% and he ended up walking that mile in absolute downpour twice. After that, he was back to driving himself in and parking in the garage with a covered walkway into the building…
There would have to be SIGNIFICANT less drivers in order for me to be comfortable with paying more taxes. And there’d have to be a cap so no new drivers. We had this experiment in MA years ago with “The Big Dig”. Cost MA tax payers a lot of money (and fed money) to build it. For the first 6 months there was a noticeable decrease in drivers. But many people who were taking alternate ways into Boston before “The Big Dig” started driving again, so within 6 months the traffic was where it was before “The Big Dig”.
That is what I was thinking, to close , just move the decimal point over one place…
But doesn’t that through off the rest of the math??
Yep, was just staring at it while going through the drive through next door… lol
Who knows why, I can figure out why the further you get out in the sticks, meaning further from the tankers, the gas gets cheaper, you would think it would be the opposite due to the high fuel price and time to get it there… lol… yes I know taxes are involved, but I mean even the within the same city…
And NO!!! lol… I am 16 miles from Nashville, in a different county, I hate the Big City…
EDIT: I guess you were surprised, I goofed, it is $2.85 a gal… oops
I used the tax of 38.5 cents a gallon and not the fuel price. The extra registration fee is the gas taxes an EV would avoid that they are trying to collect.
That’s about what I was buying when I had a 90 mile round trip commute. My 15 mpg truck was racking up 18K+ miles a year when gas was last near $5 a gallon in Ohio. That incentivized me to buy a used Honda S2000 sports car that got 27 mpg to save us money, or that’s what I told my wife!
Most people don’t drive that much. the average is about 14K miles a year. If you had a car getting 30 mpg (and that was the number I used) you’d be putting down 36K miles a year for that 100 gallons.
I used the 38.5 cents a gallon tax number rather than California’s eye-watering 67 cents a gallon.
During the mid-2010s I commuted about 100 miles round trip in an Accord V6 automatic and got around 33 mpg as I recall. The drive was from west of Baltimore to SW DC next to the National Harbor resort. I aimed to arrive at work by 6am and leave at 2:30pm to avoid traffic. I usually had a trouble free drive in but going home was often stop and go, especially on DC295. I enjoyed the people and work when I got there but the commute was hell. If you have the choice of DC295 or the DC beltway, take the beltway. It’s about 7 miles longer going from where I-95 meets the beltway north of town to the intersection of the beltway and DC295, but it’s almost always at least 10 minutes faster.
My 90 mile commute was super easy with almost no traffic. The company I worked for was in a tiny town of 3600 people in west-central Ohio. I commuted from a “big” town of 25K with another 75K in the surrounding county.
I left at 6:45 am and usually headed home at about 6pm or so. This after 25+ years of 10-15 minute commutes. The job was stressful and the commute was just another reason to find another position.
I had a neighbor that lived in the Atlanta area in the early 90s. 1 to 2 hours to go 20 miles. Anyone that’s driven through ATL on I-75 or 285 or really ANY major route at rush hour knows how stressful that can be!
So, kind of what they do in London is what I think you imagine. Their intent is to make the city pedestrian and subway friendly so you only ever see private cars that are very expensive.
Cities with good public transportation system have high usage anyways. Boston and NYC for example. I NEVER drive into Boston unless I have to. Far easier to take the T.
I think most people would not mind paying a higher gas tax as long as it goes to its intended purpose, building and maintaining the roads. Most people could tolerate a small amount going to public transportation as long as there are enough people willing to use it. Watching a double length flex bus going down the road with three passengers is not a good utilization of those taxes.
But there will be unintended consequences. The first will be more drivers driving without insurance because they can’t afford it after paying more for gas. Also people will do less maintenance for the same reason.
Once again I suggest that ALL EV chargers have a separate metering scheme so that the EV pay a tax that is roughly equivalent to what ICE drivers pay. Not sure how to address hybrids but they already do pay at least part of their share. For plug in hybrids, again tax the charger.
You must not have lived through the 70’s. It is inelastic in the sense that demand won’t change due to sudden increases in price that is perceived to be short term. But a sudden permanent increase, like a large tax hike will cause demand to go down, albeit more slowly. Those who just bought a new gas guzzler will be stuck with that decision for several years while those in the market for a new vehicle will pay a high premium for a fuel efficient vehicle. The dealers won’t be able to give away the gas guzzlers.
Once again you would see Honda Civics etc. worth more than the most expensive SUV’s and trucks. And once again, the US car makers wont be making anything that they can sell.
I live in WA and the combined gas tax here is nearing .68/gal.
But the money part is where the arguments for/against EVs and Hybrids always gets cloudy. Driving an EV is a lifestyle choice as much as anything else. An EV uses no gasoline. That’s a fact. A hybrid uses less gasoline than a conventional car. That’s a fact. So if you want to use less or no gasoline, drive a hybrid or EV. That’s the end of the discussion.
Now it may be true that you can’t afford to use less gasoline. That’s an entirely different argument. But too often the two get conflated.
I agree that the flat yearly fee for EVs isn’t quite fair, but what would be? Simply miles driven? Wouldn’t a larger, heavier Tesla X cause more road wear than a Leaf?
I’m about to leave work. 21 miles of freeway will take me over an hour. We need bigger, better, more roads. There’s no way that we will have fewer drivers on the road, so the answer has to be to accommodate the inevitable growth.
Oregon has a gps based system that charges 2 cents/mile tax for ev and hybrid. State only knows the total amount being paid through oreGo. Similar has been proposed in Wa but not allowed yet.
I’d be more inclined to support a fixed fee for everyone but based on vehicle weight. On the extreme example- if you only drive a mile, you still need the road. There are basic costs associated with supporting the infrastructure. We all need to share in that cost. So set the fee based on averages, not actual. Yes, the guy driving less pays more per mile and the guy driving more than the average pays less per mile but on average, it works out and we all share that burden…
RE roads. My experience in the last 30 years. New road expansion/construction will be at or over capacity by the time construction is completed.
Locally there is a two lane road, in the last five years numerous large condo and apartment build have been built, a FedEx hub has been built, a Walmart warehouse, an Amazon hub is under construction, plus it is the primary road to the land fill.
Four lanes isn’t scheduled to start for two more years.
The T, the DC metro, and other large metro systems are having their own …issues, mostly centered on deferred maintenance, reduced-and misallocated- budgets, and poor labor/management relations.
I find the same thing, especially on federal highways. They start with a road that is way over capacity and design a new road to handle that capacity without any regard for the future demand. By the time the road goes through all the legal loopholes, gets funded and construction starts, it is already some 6 to 10 years past the original study. When the project is finally completed 2 to 30 years later, it is just as overcrowded as it was at the start. BTW, 30 years was NOT a typo. I-40 through West Memphis, AR took longer than that.