I agree Pennsylvania has lots of drivers, and just look at the awful roads.
1 Like
Taxes serve a purpose. We begin and end discussions of taxes with the premise that they are punishment. I think that raising fuel taxes, if we spend them on roads, will increase carbon pollution because it will make driving cheaper and easier.
I think the time was different. I think cars were cheaper in the US.
Some will be priced out.
Increasing fuel costs will reduce gas consumption by encouraging people to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles, EXACTLY what happened when prices jumped years ago. When prices dropped, big SUV sales exploded, increasing gas consumption and CO2 emissions . So history contradicts your idea.
1 Like
I think not. The cheapest American car, the Model T, was built in several European countries in the 20s and sold throughout Europe. There were European alternatives built before and after the first world war.
I guess everyone reasons according to their own world view. For a quick check Iād just say compare California with one of the highest gas costs but also quite a few cars last I was there. Then South Dakota with a much lower fuel cost and not as many cars, but of course you have to drive a lot farther to get anywhere.
Comparing California to South Dakota? Hmmm, OK: California miles traveled per person = 8626, South Dakota = 11,216, 30% more (2019 statistics). Not that comparing completely different states makes sense. Increase the gas cost in South Dakota, I bet theyād drive less (short term) and buy more economical vehicles (longer term).
The other reason people buy smaller cars in Europe is the roads inside the cities and towns. People in South America also buy smaller vehicles and they donāt have as high a tax on gas as the US does. Big cars donāt do too well in many areas of large cities and small towns.
I too lived in California, when it had a lot of gas stations. In recent visits, it was very hard to find a gas station and there were lines at the pumps. Not long lines like during the gas crisis, but lines none the less. I also found that the parking spaces were much smaller than I remembered, like they were all made for 1975 Honda Civics and not todays vehicles. Modern cars and trucks literally fill the space from line to line.
The whole state seems to have become unfriendly to vehicles. Four lane city streets are now two lane so they can have bicycle lanes. One four lane city street of my youth had sidewalks that were almost ten feet wide. Now it has two lanes for cars which the bicyclist always ride in because the joggers fill the bicycle lanes and the sidewalks are empty.
When I was there I thought it was one of the most restrictive places Iāve ever been. Signs everywhere telling you what you canāt do. Every hotel seemed to have an orientation to explain the rules. TSA agents rivaled those in Amsterdam for rudeness.
You neglect the declining quality of unmaintained roads.
No, I think that effect would take years to have any impact, why even consider it? Inflict huge long term economic damage to achieve minimal benefit? There are MANY better ways.
Michigan roads are a rough, potholed mess. Their residents drive more than Californians - 9840 mi/yr.
The solution is to drive those full size, gas guzzling, SUVs that ride MUCH better than a fuel sipping Prius. Even better, order the special suspension package with electronic shocks and air-springs to make that ride even MORE comfy.
Wayne County potholes can swallow a Mini whole. An Escalade just pounds right over. Problem solved.
I think there are probably 2000 different factors that affect driving behavior and car use that are not not being considered. Canāt see there is a simple cause effect of tax/cost/miles driven. People do what they have to do to sustain their life style choices regardless of the efforts of their betters.
I traveled to Cali three times in the last two months, and I didnāt have your experience at all. The first trip at the beginning of June was before the COVID-19 restrictions were lifted, and the other two were after. I didnāt even have to wear a mask after I left the airport. Until I got to work, that is. Oh, and then there was the 2500 miles with a mask on, including a stop in between, to deal with. Iām not fond of wearing masks, but I didnāt let my 8 or 9 hours in the mask bother me. Really nice people in California too.
The point of my original question was to make people consider it, why they should want taxes, not that they should choose it.
Which would price out a lot of drivers.
That could include not-driving.
Not an option for most people.
1 Like
This has been addressed by others, but itās not true. I live in PA and vacation in NJ and MD. Prices for fuel are significantly lower in both states than PA. Hell itās lower in almost every state than it is in PA. I was just down in TN earlier this week visiting a buddy, and their fuel prices are way lower than PA even out in deep rural āGodās Countryā where he lives in the middle of nowhere. Youāre telling me the tax has nothing to do with such a dramatic price difference (I saw prices varied between 60-80 cents lower per gallon than I pay in PA)? Iām not buying it. Supply & Demand as well as location only makes so big of a difference
1 Like
Wait a minute. I donāt have to drive that much. For my work commute, I can drive 15 miles to the train station, take the train, then ride the subway to the closest station to work, and finally take the bus to the gate. Finally, I can walk 10 minutes to my building. Iām sure it wonāt take more than 2 hours, well, maybe 3. Or, I could drive up to 45 minutes each way. Problem solved!
2 Likes
I live in Tennessee. There are two small cities nearby with Walmarts. The Walmarts have gas stations and in both of these small cities, all the gas stations charge within a few pennies of the Walmart price. Between these two small cities are two small towns, one with two gas stations and one with three gas stations. Each of the small towns is about ten miles away from its nearest larger city, and the Walmarts.
Since I go through all four of these communities frequently, I have noticed that the price of gas in the small towns is consistently $.20 more than in the larger cities with a Walmart. The reason is that with most vehicles getting around 20 mpg, it takes about a gallon of gas to go to the Walmarts or other gas station in the cities, right now that is about $3.00. If your average fill up is around 15 gallons, $.20 difference is about break even for most people, plus the time involved for the extra drive.
Now in this area, the gas tax is not a factor as it is the same in both places, but if there was a small local tax added to the gas tax, the price difference would remain the same. If the tax was added in one of the small towns and the gas stations added it directly, penny for penny, it would see most of its customers running to the nearby city. If one of the cities added the tax and their gas stations added it directly, the small town gas stations would take advantage of that and raise their pump price and gain a small windfall.
Edit: BTW, one of the small cities used to have really high gas prices because they had few gas stations. When Walmart and the nearby Kroger each put in gas stations, the gas prices dropped dramatically, more inline with the rest of Tennessee.
My buddy lives in Cheatham County, I think I saw 2.65-2.85 while I was there at various stations. In my area of PA right now, youāre looking around $3.25. The TN vs PA tax difference is 31.3 cents, difference between prices between the 3.25 and 2.85? 40 centsā¦maybe on your local level the tax doesnāt pass down so much due to price manipulation, but we absolutely pay the tax difference up hereā¦