Why ask the question?
Somebody said the poor will always be with us. This is thrown around so much though that the term âpoorâ has become meaningless or means whatever anyone wants it to mean. I think the UN thinks $2 a day is poor. Being short of yams in some cultures is poor. I think most people have in their mind the lower 10% of a population which means it can never be eliminated. There is always an upper and lower 1%, 5%, 10%, but this is cars.
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I did not see any discussion from you. Stil havenât even with this post.
Fact is, I asked you to make your case if you wished to support the positive argument. Reading through the posts, seems we are all pretty much in agreement with the benefits of taxing fuel in contrast to the posted question.
the original system of international tariffs and domestic charity was pretty good.
taxpayer funded life forms â there are about 25M government employees in the USA â these are now the dream jobs for many people.
one govt employee i know refers to non-govt workers as âslavesâ. heâs joking of course.
itâs become a system thatâs made that fateful decision â if 10% taxation is good, 15% can only be better.
You mis-understand. I said it was a factor. A lot of factors, far more than the ones I mentioned above go into determining the price of gas at the pump. The big oil companies use big computers and guys with big brains to build algorithms for virtually every gas station in their chain so that at the end of the day, they get the highest possible profit.
The gas tax can be a significant part of the price you pay, but within a set of parameters, it does not affect the price you pay that much. If the tax were lowered from $.51 to say $.11, the price at the pump would not change significantly, if at all. The big oil companies would just make more money.
The biggest factors are location, supply on hand and daily demand. As long as the tax does not go out of bounds, like say to $5.00/gal as some ultra liberal politicians have suggested, the tax just doesnât make that much difference.
Not true. Why are prices different as you drive a mile from one state with high taxes to another with lower taxes? The taxes determine the difference, not some âoil company computerâ.
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Only if they raised prices, which they would be loathe to do.
If you pay $3.50 per gallon and the tax is 50 cents per gallon, the gas station is charging you $3.00 per gallon and then collecting the gas tax on top of that. If the gas tax goes away, the gas station can still charge you $3.00 per gallon and make just as much money.
And yes, the gas station could then raise their prices by 50 cents so that you still pay $3.50 per gallon, but theyâd better hope all the gas stations do that, or the one that doesnât is going to get most of the customers.
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The only place that I have ever heard of where this exists is with states bordering California, and it is NOT due to taxes. Yes California does tend to tax more but it is extremely difficult to build, own or operate a gas station in California. California has a lot of demand and little supply because of their unfavorable business climate. And you usually have to drive a lot more than one mile to get to the lower priced station.
In 1973, we had our first gas crisis. The feds dropped the national speed limit to 55 mph in an attempt to save fuel. American manufacturers could not give away their cars while Japanese and European cars were selling way above MSRP. People were learning how to drive a stick shift again. And one mid-western state, I forget which one, temporarily dropped the state tax on gas to help out their consumers.
The price of gas dropped about $.03/gal for the first day or two but soon rose back up to the normal price in neighboring states. Partly that was due to people in other states crossing the border and increasing demand. That state, nor any other state ever made that mistake again.
Check gasbuddy. The average price for Maine is $.12 more than New Hampshire, exactly equal to the tax difference. The same is true for Ohio and Michigan.
And Iâve heard many times of folks driving over the border to a cheaper-taxed state to save on gas cost. The facts refute your claim.
I donât have a smart phone so I donât do apps. Again location has a big impact. Is there a $.12 difference between adjoining gas stations on the border between New Hampshire and Maine or is it the state average.
Adam Smith âThe Wealth of Nationsâ has always proven right.
Gas price you pay = wholesale + tax + gross margin. Wholesale is the same between states in a region, gross margin is similar, the only difference is taxes. To claim that prices wouldnât change if taxes were increased or decreased doesnât make sense.
[quote=âkeith, post:28, topic:178232â]
one mid-western state, I forget which one, temporarily dropped the state tax on gas to help out their consumers.
At one time if I remember right the state of Indiana would charge state sales tax on gas say you got 10$ worth they would charge you 10$ plus whatever the sales tax was on 10$.
This may be a factbut it doesnât refute the claim. I used to live near Mono Lake California. Some people would drive all the way to Nevada to save a few cents/gallon; the trip would cost more than the saving.
? I lived in California for decades, saw lots of gas stations, and the economics were the same: expensive in remote towns that had a monopoly, competitive in town. Arco didnât accept credit cards thus had cheaper gas for those.
All the better.
I thought I made it clearly in my second post. If the government stops funding the building and maintenance of roads driving will get increasingly more expensive and dangerous. Fewer people will drive. Thereâs a tax rate, probably higher than we have now, that minimizes the cost of driving.
Taxes make âpoorâ people better off: public works inure to their benefit to a degree that makes a larger difference than to the wealthy, including safe and well-paved streets. Bad streets will drive them off.
History disagrees with this.
Compare auto sales in Europe and the US between 1900 and 1920. Despite the better quality of European roads (thank the Romans) compared to US roads, sales of automobiles in the US far surpassed Europe by 1920. This is at a time when the passenger rail system in the US was quite good considering the countryâs size. The conclusion one can draw from this is that poor roads do not suppress driving.
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Poor roads will not reduce driving much at all . People still need to get work in vehicles where Public Transportation is non-excitant . They might buy vehicles more suited to their area .
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Ok, now I understand, this is a nonsense question. âIf we destroy our roads, will we use less gas?â
I guess the answer is âYes, but why ask such a question?â.
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I think the answer is no. There are plenty of 3rd world countries with abysmal roads where people use lots of gas crawling along them at 10mph.
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Without seeing all the underlying data, my guess as to the reason for that is that a far higher percentage of people in those countries donât own a car and therefore donât consume any gas.
A better statistic would be fuel use per vehicle mile driven. I bet itâs on par with the more wealthy countries where most people own cars.
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Nope. That (just 1/average fuel economy) eliminates the impact of poor roads: they keep folks from driving. To me itâs obvious: Make the roads undrivable, people will drive less.
But I ask again: why ask the question?