his above response explains what i meant better than i did, its a much simpler method than your over complicated one
You are right, wes, they could easily be made strong enough.
I only see this making sense with batteries or fuel cells. They need hefty engines for propulsion. Making them a little heavier to handle all the braking sounds doable, especially if you design the top speed to be 100mph. Higher top speeds requires much larger motors and batteries with rapid output. A car designed to have good performance to 80 and dropping a bit after that, could still feel exceptionally quickly. If you don’t want to enlarge the motors ebough to cover rapid stops from speed, you could have a small hydraulic system fot the front wheels only. In most braking it would not be involved, but when need more btaling it, there.
TT, I don’t have a design in mind. But I do know that a solenoid needs a flow of electric charges to apply a force. That flow of charges needs a electrical power source to overcome resistance in the wire or the flow stops.
Here’s the crux of the issue and it’s a common pitfall; you are looking at electric brakes as an innovation rather than an invention. You are applying some limited technical details of things you currently know to a problem that is more than likely going to need to include an invention to succeed.
Not a dig on you by any means. I have been in R&D for many decades and even seasoned engineers fall into this trap. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me- it can’t be done, I’d be a far richer person for it. In fact, I can not even count how many times I have been told that and subsequently proved that person wrong.
I have some ideas about I how I might approach the problem and none of them involve the use of a solenoid.
Without going into more details let me point out one invention that might shed some light on what I’m trying to convey- Electronic shocks. They use ferro-magnetic fluid to alter the damping force and an algorithm leveraged from Bose noise cancelling technology. Who would have thought 10-20 years ago that was even possible until the fluid was invented and made the leap possible?
I have drilled this into the people who work for/with me- The difficult things we do immediately, the impossible just takes a little longer…
Good speech, TT. But I remain unconvinced that electric brakes would have any advantage over hydraulic brakes. As someone already pointed out, hydraulic brakes are the direct application of the foot’s force to the brake pads, the only loss being a miniscule loss of energy due to the heat generated by compressing the fluid. Besides that, hydraulic brakes are readily controllable by simply varying the force on the pedal.
I’m wide open to the idea of electric brakes IF someone can identify an advantage. I haven’t heard one yet. Everything I’ve heard so far involves more complexity and more cost.
I’ve already acknowledged that federal mandates are causing brake systems to be used for purposes other than stopping the vehicle, and these mandates may force braking systems to become computer controlled more than they currently are, and that may force electric braking. But that’s simply an acknowledgement of an unpredictable future, not a belief that electric brakes have advantages.
Being a sci-fi fan who’s seen reality surpass many of the sci-fi creations of the old sci-fi movies, seen it surpass even the imaginations of sci-fi writers, I accept the possibility that perhaps some day our vehicles may be controlled by federally controlled satellite transmissions. It may be that if we try to speed, the feds will apply our brakes, if we try to take an off ramp too fast, the feds will apply our brakes, etc. It may be that those applications may be more cost effective to achieve with electric brakes. But currently, and in the foreseeable future, I see no advantage.
my electric drill is variable speed , depending on my finger pressure, I don t see why an electric brake could not do the same
It could. But IMHO not with the same direct simplicity as hydraulics. I should also add that when really big power is needed, like when boring tunnels, hydraulics are used.
I realize that the subject is open to interpretation, and nobody knows the truth of the future. I realize also that someone may come up with a better idea. My opinion on the subject are just that, opinions. No more, no less. None is any more accurate than the next.
I like hydraulic brakes. I can fix them inexpensively and they work well.
so it seems inevitable that they will be done away with. story of my life… 
" With dynamic braking, the [regen] braking is only as powerful as the motors are."
To add to B.L.E.'s narrative, a Tesla Model S with a 270 kW motor can regen at only 60 kW max, apparently limited by battery considerations.
LOL, good point, wes. I concede. We’ll surely see electric brakes.
I already gave you the cost advantages I envision in an earlier post. To boil it down, the material costs differences will be in the noise band. LABOR savings will be the major factor. Bolt on a single part (similar in labor to the caliper you’re bolting on now), without any of the labor associated with the rest of the “conventional” hydraulic system. Sold.
TT, there is absolutely nothing complicated, materials/parts intensive, or labor intensive about manufacturing and/or installing hydraulic brakes. It’s as basic and direct as possible. No electric system that I can envision could be more so.
Ergo, I disagree with your contention that electric brakes would be cheaper or less labor intensive to manufacture or install. And, since they would by necessity use power in an era where every drop of power has become precious and must not be unnecessarily used, replacing a system that uses zero power from the engine with one that uses power from the engine seems counterproductive.
Remember that electricity isn’t free. It needs to be generated. Generating it takes power. Using more of it requires more power. In an ICE powered car, 100% of the power comes from burning gasoline.
“In an ICE powered car, 100% of the power comes from burning gasoline.”
Including the power to operate the vacuum booster.
There may not be anything “complicated, materials/parts intensive, or labor intensive about manufacturing and/or installing hydraulic brakes,” but they are expensive and labor intensive to maintain outside of pads/shoes and rotors/drums, especially when changing brake fluid and bleeding the system every 2-3 years. Electric brakes will be far easier to service. They might or might not be cheaper to install, but they will definitely be easier and cheaper to service.
“…but they will definitely be easier and cheaper to service.”
Based on what? Please provide link to your study.
Whitey, let me ask you a question:
is it easier to find and repair a leak in a brake system or an intermittent short in a car’s electrical systems?
And I “second” insightful’s question.
With my skill set, it’s easier to find the short. In fact, I’ve gotten pretty good at finding the short, but I’ve never repaired hydraulic equipment.
I remember people hanging on to their carburetor cars, screaming about the demons of fuel injection. Change is scary, but I think enough is enough. Its time we close the coffin lid on hydraulic brakes and nail it shut, if hydraulics were so great big trucks would have hydraulic brakes.
We have Many international medium duty trucks in our fleet at work, there are two similar trucks weight wise but one is newer and just heavier enough that it was equipped with air brakes. There is no comparison to the hydraulic front disc equipped truck vs the 4 wheel drum brake equipped air brake truck, the hydraulic brake truck is downright scary sometimes. Drum brake equipped vehicles have more stopping power the same sized package vs disc brakes because properly fitted drum brake shoes have more contact area than disc pads.
If we went to all electric drum brakes maybe we could do away with nasty brake fluid that is corrosive, poisonous, hygroscopic, and IMHO smells bad.
I’m fortunate to have education and experience in both, but in my experience the most labor intensive to diagnose and repair are the electrical malfunctions. Intermittent electrical problems can be a challenge.
@WheresRick, really? Drum brakes, again? [sigh]
Using electricity to apply your brakes instead of hydraulic power seems, at least in my opinion, to fit the KISS principle. Using drum brakes instead of disc brakes goes against the KISS principle, because drum brakes are a lot more complicated than discs. They take longer to service, and they take more skill to service than discs.