@FoDaddy
Can’t have any internal competition for the F150 here in the US. The foreign market seems immune to full size trucks so the Ranger works outside the US. One of the reasons the Tacoma hasn’t changed in so many years is there is little competition. Now, if Ford actually started selling “new” Rangers with innovative drive trains…
Part of the problem with bringing in the new Ranger is it would cost too close to the F150 starting price as well as being only a little smaller. The Ranger as well as the Toyota Hilux (Tacoma to us) is mostly what you see in the U.K. as pickups with the exception of Ford Transit’s with pickup beds. From what I saw while there last August/September
That “Ranger” in the picture seems to be much more closely related to an Explorer SportTrac than the Ranger that was sold in the US
Well, sticking at least a little to the “what motorists want” vs “what motorists need,” I’d say a compact/midsize pickup would fit the NEEDS of most pickup users optimally. A mid-size P/U (stripped) should handle 1500# in the bed, and tow 6500 or so. If you “need more truck” than that, you don’t really need a 1/2 ton…you need a 1-ton dually with a 5th wheel!
The problem with the supercab truck movement is that the bed is truncated to make the vehicle parkable. I saw a mid-80’s S-10 for sale recently…the bed was bigger than a F 150 crewcab!
I need at least a 6.5’ bed to accomodate the 1-ton buckets of mulch and gravel I sometimes get…the bucket has trouble pouring into a smaller bed than that. I also need to parallel park it at my house and at some jobs…so a regular cab is all i can practically run. I’n an ideal world, I’d have my '94 F150 with a cabover so that I could fit a full-ish bed without changing the wheelbase.
(Unlike the OP, however, I understand full well why auto manufacturers don’t make trucks for the likes of me…and have no desire to attempt to thwart the free market for my own selfish ends!)
It will be interesting to see if the new Ford CEO continue’s with Mullaly’s insistence on moving towards selling the same vehicles around the world (with somewhat different subsets of all models in each market.) By Mullaly’s principles we might well see the Ranger here, just as we finally got the Transit Connect and C-Max that had been sold in Europe for years (even the S-Max, briefly). The Fusion and Escape are also basically European Fords, and it looks like the upcoming large van is a world product. I’m really glad to see Ford doing this.
RBoth GM and Ford talked endlessly about the need for world cars for decades, but only rare products actually fit that description at all, and they were often heavily modified for the different markets (like the original Escort and Cavalier.) The Fusion/Mondeo is a gorgeous car that looks like a luxury model
(^o^) ml lol . The Kuga/Escape had been sold in Europe for several years. Ford had an ancient Escape that was still selling well, so people in the US didn’t want to replace it. I haven’t seen sales figures, but I’m seeing a whole lot of the new Escape. It and the Fusion seem perfectly acceptable to Americans. I even see Fiestas regularly, but that may be because I’m in one of the densest cities, where they make sense. All of this suggests Mullaly was right, that European and American needs are not so different, at least in some categories. GM is still making half-hearted moves in the same direction, but they have the awkward situation of Chevy and Buick overlapping ao much.
I don’t know where I picked this up, but it has been pointed out that the things we buy derive there costs to produce from materials, labor, and burden (the cost to operate a manufacturing plant) in roughly a one-third/one-third/one-third ratio. There are some exceptions, but cars is not one of them.
It has also been pointed out that the labor to produce a small car is nearly the same as the labor to produce a large car. Same with inexpensive cars vs expensive cars. The difference in cost to produce is mostly in the materials being used. (Again, there are some exceptions)
I think what that means is that an inexpensive car can’t be sold at the same profit level as an expensive car, and so to a consumer, it just makes more sense to buy the bigger car and pay the small amount more for it.
And that’s why small, inexpensive, fuel efficient cars just don’t make it in the marketplace. Repeatedly shown to be true.
Personally, I’d like to see full-framed compact pickups sold again, like my old '79 and ‘89 Toyota pickups. Before anyone says it, I’ll say it… without the rust. Tacomas are larger than my ol’ trucks were.
But, as someone already noted, demand for them seems to be lacking.
Demand for them in the US is lacking. They are still very popular in South America.
My brother had a 1972 Datsun pickup. It was great for trips to the lumber yard for supplies to maintain his rental properties and to cart his lawnmowers around. The size of the truck for his purposes was much better than the 1062 Dodge pickup that he had owned before the Datsun. However, we took a 250 mile trip in the Datsun truck and even though that was 30 years ago, my eyeballs are still bouncing up and down. However, I rode in a Mazda pickup truck that a mechanic owned and it seemed like a Cadillac after the Datsun.
The rumor is, there will be a smaller pick up from Toyota and perhaps from others, but they will be unibody using the RAV components and offered in AWD. imo, you will never see small pickups in framed versions here. Been there and those sold in 4wd that we’re a big share of the market were really poor handlers, stiff riding like a buckboard and liked to rolled over. The 2wd drive version were OK but a unibody can carry nearly as much and handle and ride a lot better and be build on existing components. Scion may get the this truck.
A unibody would be likely to use FWD. One of the things that made the old compact trucks so great was their very easy maintenance and their bulletproof powertrains. Rear leaf springs, RWD, double A-frames up front (adding up to easily replaceable shocks rather than struts as well as ruggedness and no half-shafts with CV joints), a longitudinally mounted engine (super easy to work on). Just a good, rugged, durable, easy to maintain truck. There are many, many things that I did with my ol’ pickups that I would never try with a FWD unibody. Mine rode like trucks. I have no problem with that.
Having said that, I liked the old car/truck combo such as the El Camino too. That’d be a great idea too, and I don’t think FWD would limit it’s usability. They weren’t intended for heavy work anyway.
It’ll be interesting to see what they come up with. I got no money to buy one anyway, but it’ll be interesting.
If you look at a lot of the minivans, Honda Element, Scion xB etc, they seem capable with loads under 800 lbs with the loads between the wheels. I would not anticipate problems with a small unibody truck in fwd either though AWD would make it more functional like the Ridgeline. It works fine on a fwd chassis on the one my friend has but with standard AWD. It handles the heaviest of weight specified with ease, over 1000 lbs.
What the heck, the way most use their trucks as trash haulers, they (unibody) might work for most. If I wanted more, I would spring for a mid size with the frame. Like many, in a couple years, we are presently waiting on the new Tacomas when I perhaps trade the then 12 year out 4Runner in. That’s because, We don’t miss the ride of the smaller trucks in 4wd. They were atrocious. I liked them actually handling wise in 2wd. Great golf carts ! Best one ever was a Toy 2wd extra cab v6 …low slung, decent riding and handled very well for a truck and fairly quick without the 4wd weight and raised body
Another advantage of the old compact 2WD pickups was bed height… very easy to load and unload. For me, those trucks were perfect.
I also dragged trees out of the woods, hauled loads of stone for stone walls, and did many other things that I’m not sure I’d trust a unibody with FWD to do… acknowledging that I don’t know if what they’ll be coming out with will be FWD. My '79’s bed floor rambled up and down over the transverse supports like waves in the ocean when it finally met its end. I don’t know that a unibody could withstand that level of use. I know I’d be reticent to use it that way if the bed were a part of the body structure.
I think small unibody trucks in the vein of the old El Camino would be great as an addition to compact pickups, but I myself would prefer a small pickup in the vein of my old trucks.
Given the Ridgeline’s disappointing I’m amazed anyone else is considering a small uni body truck. There have been plenty of other failures, like the Baja and BRAT and the VW truck based on the Rabbit. Not to mention the Dodge Rampage/Plymouth Scamp. The Ridgeline looks like a massive success in that company. If someone wants to try it again, gardeners everywhere will be grateful. The VW was perfect for hauling a lawnmower, with its low floor.
Mark, I think the reason the Toyota succeeded where the others you mentioned failed was that it was just a basic, cab-on-frame, miniature pickup. My '79 was a “Longbed” with a 7-foot bed, just over 8 feet with the tailgate down. This truck format was common in other countries, but not so in the U.S. Most of the others tried to be something other than a truck but with a small bed. The ridgeline is the exception, having managed to be a success, but it’s a lot bigger than the old mini-pickups were.
I always liked the low floors in my Toyota pickups. As well as the low cab entry/egress height. I never did see much point in having to climb up into a high cab just to get a couple bags of fertilizer.
“I never did see much point in having to climb up into a high cab just to get a couple bags of fertilizer”.
@ the_same_mountainbike–
I agree with you if you are buying a couple of bags of 3-12-12. However, if you going to carry home two or more bags of 10-10-10 fertilizer with its higher percentage nitrogen content, you had better move up to a F-150.
LOL, thanks for the chuckle. {
Question: if you put them both on the ground, is the nitrogen content still higher?
Only if you put pure nitrogen in your rear truck tires.
@MarkM
The disappointing sales has little to do with it’s performance or capabilities. Owners love the truck and fils the bill. The sales problem is pretty simple. Because it’s unibody, there is only one style as it gets real expensive with multiple body styles compared to framed truck. With one running gear on a framed truck , you can throw on different beds motors and cabs making a variety of sales segment appeal. Big selling Tacomas include the extended cab and more economical fours which Honda doesn’t even make. It makes the crew cab in six cylinder So sales have to be compared to just crew cab mid size pick ups with sixs. Because there is no variety and they have such a small bed, no cheaper 2wd versions etc, they have limited sales appeal for just one buying segment and almost none for fleet and parts trucks which is also a big buying segment. It was the same with the element which catered to one small segment and once they had all bought one, there were few buyers left. Any unibody truck will suffer the same problem. That’s why a small dedicated one on existing parts with moderate sales expectations makes big success unlikely for unibody trucks.but might work on a small unique selling line like Scion.
Toyota has never liked Scion selling in small numbers. It has never been their intention, it’s just what happened when they gave Scion a lineup of quirky vehicles. What I was suggesting was that I wondered what other makers were thinking in building more models in a category that has had one failure after another. The Ridgeline isn’t a failure like a Rampage or Baja, but Honda has always considered its sales disappointing. I think they would make more sales if it wasn’t being sold by Honda, as it is a very clever design. But put it on a lot surrounded by cars and car-based SUVs and the people who might find it useful will never see it. It may not carry a whole lot, but for many people who just need to carry their sporting gear, or whose jobs require carrying messy, but light tools and materials. It would be fine for the lawnmower jockeys and pool cleaners and such. Though possibly too expensive new.