Why I treat dealers as adversarial

A large dealer in MA (and other parts of the country) found guilty of taking advantage of customers through misleading analysis. Never dealt with this dealer…but I’m surprised they’re the only one. I know several others that do the same thing.

Caveat emptor!

"There’s a sucker born every minute!"
I would never trust a dealer or any place offering me a loan to purchase anything, for that matter. To do so is foolish. A consumer must do some checking and research before entering into an agreement with any of the above.

I pay cash for everything. I don’t have to worry about getting ripped-off on a loan.

I can’t believe how many people don’t want to take responsibility for their own ignorance or neglect when it comes to getting loans. They expect somebody else to watch over them or bail them out. Just take a look at the college loan fiasco/crisis.
:palm_tree: :sunglasses::palm_tree:

JT Byrider is buy here, pay here. No wonder the rates are high and they failure rate is high. That doesn’t make it right, but it explains a lot.

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+1… mostly…
I pay cash for my new cars, but if the manufacturer offered 0% or maybe 1% financing I might opt for that, rather than running-down the balance on my Money Market Account. I would have to assess what is offered before deciding whether to do my usual cash transaction, or to accept a very low-cost financing deal that cost less than what I earn in interest.

For “everyday” purchases, I buy with high-rebate credit cards, earning 3-4% rebates each month, and then I pay the balance of those credit card bills–in full–each month. I wind-up reaping ~$1k each year in credit card rebates, while paying nothing for fees.

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Sometimes there is a large rebate on cars that is tied to financing with the car company. When I bought my new 2004 PT Cruiser, the sticker Price was $19000+ but it had a $5000 rebate if you financed with Chrysler Financial, with no prepayment penalty. I negotiated $1200 more off from the dealer and even after sales tax I had a new car for $14000+ that made me smile.

I know they had a terrible reputation, but the only thing I had to fix in 7 1/2 years other than brakes was one wheel bearing. I was mot planning getting rid of it but someone decided to turn left while looking right and toateled it.

I know of others who share your positive experience with owning a PT Cruiser. There are some really sweet deals on them here in Florida. A lot of older folks here drove them, garaged and maintained them and then gave up driving. It’s possible to buy a like new, low, low mileage, no rust, Cruiser, crazy cheap!
:palm_tree: :sunglasses: :palm_tree:

I can only assume from that statement you never put a kid through college. I suggest you do some research on the student loan crisis. Sure some blame goes to some students…but then you have these for-profit colleges who’s degree isn’t worth the price of the paper it’s printed on. We can start with Trump University. Then there’s Newt Gingrich who coached For Profit colleges on how to lobby congress. Obama’s administration tried to regulate these predatory practices, but never got through Congress or the Senate…Gee I wonder why?

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Funny… it was not long for politics to be added to this thread…

You assume wrongly! We put 2 kids through college, actually the kids put themselves through.

Both kids earned scholarships that helped. Both kids worked multiple jobs through junior-high and high school and saved enough to purchase pre-paid tuition contracts at a mere fraction of what the actual cost of tuition became. (Golf courses are a very lucrative place for kids to work if they know about golf, are personable, and willing to bust their butts.)

They continued working through college. Both kids shared houses with as many as 4 roommates.

There never were loans involved and I totally resented those stupid FASFA (or whatever) forms and crap from government intervention.

We don’t like loans in my family. The time to pay for college or cars isn’t beginning when you start school or need a car. It’s as soon as one realizes that some day in the future the money will be needed. We call it saving.

Also, I believe the government created the loan mess and high cost of college, to some extent. “I’m from the government and I’m here to help!” No teenager should ever be allowed to borrow that kind of money. Once the schools know the kids have the dough then they can keep upping what they charge and build Taj Mahal style campuses. Also, they give a hand-out to so many “disadvantaged” students they must charge the “advantaged” (hard working kids) more.

Bringing back to cars, again. People should try very hard to live a lifestyle they can afford and not be dependent on loans from the get go. No loan, no loan rip-offs!
Just saying…
:palm_tree::sunglasses: :palm_tree:

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My daughter had a full scholarship to MIT. Now most colleges don’t give academic scholarships, but instead it’s based on family income. The more the income the less you’ll get in scholarship. At $70k for private colleges and even $40k for in-state colleges it’s extremely difficult for any kid to EARN that kind of money to pay for college. At one point I had 3 kids in college (one grad school and two undergrad). Total yearly tuition for all 3 was north of $120k. And my wife and I both have technical degrees and both managers with a combined income to put us near the top 5% income. If we had to take out loans, trust me the vast majority of parents/kids had to take out loans. Great that you didn’t have to. We took out equity loans to pay tuition. Student loan rates were/are outrageous. The majority of people in this country rent…so they don’t have that option. CSA - you’re in an extremely rare situation. The vast majority are NOT.

All BHPH lots do this and so do some new car franchised dealers who offer 18% loans. The reason being that the number of people who will default on a loan is much greater.
A dealer I know (former Subaru dealer turned BHPH) sold and repossessed the same car 3 times in one year as all 3 buyers defaulted on the agreement within a few months. It’s not his fault.

I hate to say you can’t talk about something, so I won’t. But this is well-trod ground with respect to student loans and personal responsibility. Please don’t get back into politics. It never ends well.

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My wife brought home a book from the library titled “Cheaters Always Win”. She has quoted sections of the book and I am anxious to read the book when she is finished.
I think there is quite a market for the sale of loans. Years ago, Consumer Reports had an article titled “Bait the Hook With Merchandise” where the objective is to hook the customer into a high interest loan and use an automobile or some other goods as bait. College student loans are bait that hooks many students. In many states, the state government reduced the funding for state universities. The administration of these universities shrugged its shoulders and raised tuition. When the students couldn’t pay the rising tuition, the students were encouraged to take out student loans. Now there are ways costs could be cut at colleges and universities. I was put on a committee to study this issue. The administration hated my suggestions. Of course, all the work we put into looking at cost savings was an exercise in futility as nothing we recommended was ever put into practice.
Now I put student loans and auto loans in the same category. If a student’s financial situation only allows a student to attend a community college or regional campus, enroll there and work hard. My sister-in-law went to a community college and did so well she was offered and accepted an $8000 scholarship for her last two years at a very good private liberal arts college. When I think about my colleagues at the university where I taught, some of the most productive came from rather low ranked institutions. On the other hand, I had colleagues from name institutions who were actually a drag on the institution.
I drove used cars for years that I selected carefully and maintained the cars well. When I was a graduate student, we had an old AMC Rambler that I purchased second hand, but kept up the maintenance. We lived in married student housing. New faculty were allowed to live in married student housing as well for their first year while they sought housing and could get on a more sound financial basis. One such faculty member and his wife lived in our building. The wife had a job and the husband was frantically trying to wipe out the ignition system as his expensive BMW wouldn’t start after an overnight rain. The wife was getting impatient as she had to get to work. My wife and I came out, got in our old Rambler and it started right up. I offered the other couple a ride which they accepted. I took the faculty member’s wife to her job, drove my wife to her class and drove the faculty member to his office. On the way, he proceeded to tell me how great BMWs were and how poor quality my Rambler was. After hearing this for a while, I said that I pulled a heavily loaded U-Haul with the Rambler and it didn’t overheat. I told him no matter how cold the weather, the Rambler always started. That made the new prof angry. He told me I wouldn’t appreciate a fine car. “You’re probably right”, I replied. “But I sure hate walking in the rain”. That made the new prof so angry that when he got out of the car, he slammed the door so hard I thought it would break the glass. The next time we had a heavy, overnight rain, while the new prof was wiping out the ignition system with his wife yelling at him Mrs. Triedaq and I took off in the Rambler and we honked the horn and waved as we went past the stranded BMW.
I think a student without a lot of money should start at a community college or regional campus and work hard. That student will get a good education. A person who carefully selects a used car within his or her means and maintains it well will have reliable transportation.
The Rambler was ultimately replaced with a two year old Ford Maverick. I was able to start the Maverick at 20 degrees below zero and it was sitting outside. The Maverick had an interior that made a school bus look luxurious and rode like a wheelbarrow, but it would start up in weather where more expensive wouldn’t fire up. I finally traded the Maverick when I found I was paying more for Preparation-H from riding in the Maverick than I was on upkeep for the car. If my medical insurance would have covered the cost of Preparation-H, I would still have the Maverick.

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Do you recall this Maverick TV commercial from 1970?

It is an adversarial relationship by my definition, the salesman and the dealer want to make as much as possible, I want to spend as little as possible.

@VDCdriver. I remember that commercial. I am sure it would be considered sexist today as it implies that women don’t have a lot of mechanical ability.
Thanks for the memory.

If you have terrible credit and buy used cars then you possibly have point of lumping them together,

JD Byrider is an engine for selling used vehicles (really anything) to someone with poor credit and high risk. Majority of New Car dealers or established user car ones do not touch this market.

Madriver , Buy here / Pay Here used vehicle lots do serve a purpose and it would be nice it they did not need to exist. But did you miss the part where the qualifications were being skewed and all the loans were at 19 % .