Why can't German Car Brands Make Their Cars as Reliable as Japanese Cars?

General Discussion
1

I have been a fan of BMW and Mercedes for a long time for the looks and features, but one thing that has disappointed me every time is the shitty engineering of German Brands that make their cars immune to high maintenance costs and expensive repairs.

I had my friend tell me that just to just get his BMW brake’s rear pad repaired, he had to spend a hefty $600(quoted from BMW), this is absurd!

But this isn’t the case with Toyota, Mazda, and Honda cars. Japanese car manufacturers make some of the most reliable cars and still stick to the standard with simple and accessible engineering.

The German cars are no better in the longer run too, with maintenance costs going up to $1700 for 1-5 years (being the best compared to Audi and Mercedes) according to consumer reports. Toyota is around $1100, and $1500 for Mazda

What do you think the reasons are? Why can’t BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and these German brands don’t make their cars more reliable? is it just the greediness of these brands or planned strategies implemented?

2

Shop labor rate for a Toyota or Mazda around here is at or over $200/hour. Suppose a shop charges an hour and a half to replace pads and rotors. $300 labor. $80 for a set of brake pads and $100 each for brake rotors. That’s a routine brake job for $600 on a typical Japanese family sedan. $600 for BMW sounds like a deal.

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3

Why do Audi timing chains fail?and you have to remove motor to fix it?

4

On April 11, 2023, at 50,000 miles, Toyota dealership charged me $1,305 for front and rear brake replacement on my 2018 Lexus IS.

It would have been more at a Lexus dealership.

My brother bought a bmw 5 series and he told me he hasn’t spent half of what I spent for upkeep on his car.

Whoever said maintenance on a Lexus is cheap is seriously mistaken.

5

If you have it maintained at a trustworthy indy shop, the maintenance cost would be much lower, and would be comparable to the cost of maintaining a Toyota.

6

Indy shops barely use OEM parts.

There is one Indy shop around where I live that has a high rating from customers. I checked them out and they told me it was against their policy to use parts outside of what they use.

7

I don’t know, I paid around $350(inc labor) for all 4 brakes of my 2012 Corrola. BMW still sounds a lot generally compared

8

always wise to go for a local Lexus service shop rather than the dealership when the car’s out of warranty. The rate difference is huge between both, and you’ll be just laying crazy fees to the dealership. It’s the same for all brands

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9

Too bad about that shop’s policy. My local indy shop uses only OEM parts, unless they are unavailable.

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10

Prices vary by region, required tooling varies by car, quality of work varies by shop, and the entire customer experience will be different.

Does McDonalds have a starting wage of $22/hr where you live? Does your $350 brake job come with a 3yr/36K mile warranty? Did the shop provide you a loaner car while yours was being serviced? Does your Corolla require a scan tool to replace the rear brake pads and to reset your brake pad wear monitor? Your Toyota requires removal of the wheels to inspect and measure brake pad thickness. On a late model BMW I can inspect the brakes from the driver’s seat with a laptop.

Different levels of service, different prices.

11

Diy repair of BMW’s is a common theme in UK classic car hobby publications. In reading those articles , I don’t see BMW’s being any more difficult or time consuming to repair than other brands (at least those sold in the UK). You have to compare apples to apples of course, meaning the comparison is between BMW’s and other makes having similar performance and configurations. The more gadgets and gizmos, auto-trans, turbos, etc, the more likely a repair will be required, and likewise, the more expensive the repair.

The comparison may be different in the USA however. UK BMW’s tend to be configured w/ manual transmissions for example.

12

Your vehicles are really old

A 1992 Toyota Corolla and a 1970s Ford F-150 4×4

And once in awhile, you talk about your previous car, a 1970s VW Rabbit

You were never a professional mechanic

By my estimation, you don’t have what it takes to make helpful comments, in regards to modern vehicles

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13

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Suggest to lobby the moderators for a requirement in the forum guidelines that says that owning a modern vehicle is a pre-requisite for posting here. If that guideline were in existence I’d either not post here at all, or would buy a more modern vehicle so I could post.

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14

I don’t think it is possible to spend $3500 on a 2012 Corolla brake job unless the brake lines are rusted through or the ABS unit needs replacing.

16

One to many zeros there sir, he said $350… lol

17

You essentially posted the answer to your question:

Here’s the answer in reverse:

People tend to buy the expensive Euro brands because of styling for sure but also because they value cutting edge technology and performance. And when you live on the bleeding edge- I have a prediction for you… it ends up costing more money.

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18

Haven’t had a timing chain fail on any vehicle in a long time. But if one failed on my Highlander or my wifes Lexus - you need to remove the engine to replace chain. Might have to do more work since both are interference engines.

19

That’s coming out of someone who hasn’t seen anyone own any of the German cars. I love and admire the styling and tech of BMW and Mercedes but that certainly doesn’t justify the maintenance cost and cars failing in the long run.
For instance, One thing you’ll find common in Audi, BMW, Mercedes is “lots of Plastic”
You can compare Mercedes’s materials to those of newer models, and you’ll know how much quality has been dropped. The same is true with newer Audi models like the A3 and Q4 Etron.
I know every brand uses plastic(which is useful but excessive use is a problem) but you don’t expect this from luxury brands do basic cost-cutting with excessive use of plastic,

BMW is the only brand that has actually improved its reliability game and is present on the ranking charts in terms of reliability

20

I agree and that’s one of the reasons I don’t own one. Love the styling of some but the tradeoff in maintenance and repair costs don’t justify the performance advantages for me.

The question on use of lower cost materials you have to ask- would you be willing to pay even more for better materials? It’s only for luxury at that point so you have to really value that aspect in order to shell out even more for those nice appointments. You can get that with higher trim levels, models and other makes. I’m betting they are targeting people that just value the styling/performance aspects and consider the trim level adequate. Hard to be everything to everyone…

Well, from my perspective BMW could only improve from where they were. Sorry beemer people :slight_smile:

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