I’ve said that for years, “they are all junk, just some are better junks than others”
I said it once here and you would have thought I shot everyone’s favorite pet… 
That is so very true… That is why the New Car Dealer service departments are so big… Well one of the main reasons anyway…
It seems like the junkiness of cars is a blessing, from the viewpoint of a lifelong mechanic. Job security.
I’d take a Lexus LS over a Fiat 500 any day.
The best, most dependable car we have ever owned is our 1985 Toyota Corolla LE. We bought it new, still have it and it has just under 250,000 miles on it and we had it out today… Major repairs are and it’s almost a joke are 2-Alternaters, one starter, one Heater Fan, and one Air Conditioner Compressor (system upgraded from R-12 to R-134A) . The struts were rebuilt once and later replaced. The Engine has never had more serious service than timing belts replaced, and the transmission (automatic…) has had it juice replaced (maybe twice…).
When I was a teenager, I had a family member, 50+ years older than me (third or fourth cousin, two or three times removed), who had a 1959 Mercedes Benz 220SE, it had Column Mounted 4-speed Manual Transmission and by the late '60s, it had over 400,000 miles on it and a whole bunch of those mileage badges that were popular to put on your grill. That car was like something you would expect James Bond to drive… I use to tease him that if he got any more badges, his engine would overheat for lack of cooling to the radiator… He passed on before the car passed 500,000 miles and it was sold while I was stationed in Italy. I often wonder if it’s still around.
If a car is above the lowest reliability level I consider it good enough to look seriously at it. Automobile reliability has gotten so much better in the last 30 years that CR considers a car least reliable if it has 4% or more complaints. At least they are open about their methods.
Does one have a significantly more complex design than the other? How so? Presumably you believe the Lexus LS has a proven better reliability of the two. On what basis of measurement? My understanding is the Fiat 500 is considered competitively reliable. The repair problem w/ the 500 seems to be the cost of repairs when repairs are needed, quite high.
The 500 has the ‘honor’ of being on CR’s ‘cars to avoid’ list, based on reliability. The LS is the top fo the line Lexus on their ‘used cars we love list’. The 500 is a basic econobox, the LS has every bell and whistle available.
For a “basic” car it appears to have a heck of a lot of options. I can see how it could be quite difficult & expensive to diagnose & repair. Conventional gasoline, hybrid, and fully electric. Wikipedia says two of its 4 available non-hybrid gasoline engines are turbo equipped. One of it four transmission options is an automatic-manual (presumably similar to Ford’s dual clutch) . LED DRL & taillights, display screen, Android auto and Apple Play. From what I can tell the 500 was discontinued in the USA in 2019, but will reappear as a full-electric next year. Comparing it to a Lexus LS, apples and oranges, seems a bit of a stretch.
Are you saying the 500 represents a simple design? This topic was invokes when you said some ‘complex’ car brands are more reliable than simple brands. But it is hard for me to believe the 500 represents a simple brand. Can you think of a “simple brand” that is considered less reliable than the Lexus? Simple (or at least more simple brands) in my opinion would be a base-model, non-turbo, manual transmission Corolla, Civic, Mazda 3, Focus, or Sentra.
I would trust a fully optioned LS over a base 500, forget all the options. There is a HUGE difference between the two in complexity, and the opposite difference in reliability. You consider a 500 the equal of the LS in complexity? You are mistaken.
At some point I will really try and keep track of cars stuck on the side of the road to see which make and model I see more frequently. But I then came to realize that a lot of these breakdowns are owner related. Driving on old tires, tire pressure light on, CEL ignored, low gas, nobody checked under the hood for coolant levels, dead battery, the list goes on. Now I mostly ignore them.
My luck with Toyota has been a bit better than other makes but not all of the models I have owned. But, at least, if you have a used Toyota you don’t like, the resale is good. And I am not talking trucks which is a different game.
Exactly. This old adage is applicable to any business: There is no money in a cure…
The only party involved the vast array of involvement in the automobile market that wants a vehicle to last 20 years without any trouble is the consumer.
I always like to look at a site called carcomplaints.com when looking at a used car or helping friends looking into buying.
For example, one guy had a Pontiac G6 for his kids that needed a lot of work. He was on the fence about keeping it and this made the decision to move it on. 2008 Pontiac G6 Problems, Defects & Complaints
There are several bad engines and transmissions to beware of. The Chrysler 2.7L V6 was a real unreliable one. One of my friends had one make it to 150,000 miles before throwing a rod and the tow truck driver said he saw these all the time and that his car went the farthest before blowing up. 2000 Dodge Intrepid Problems, Defects & Complaints
Also, some models have problem transmissions. This Focus and many Nissan models with the CVT are known for trouble. 2014 Ford Focus Problems, Defects & Complaints One of my friends had one of these and got 3x free transmissions during the warranty period. He sold it ASAP once the warranty was expired while it was still running.
Toyota generally makes a very good car but there are exceptions like anything else. The 2007 Camry is an “avoid at all costs” according to this site. 2007 Toyota Camry Problems, Defects & Complaints
On the other hand, this mechanic seems to be well-versed in the oil burning Camry and doesn’t feel it is a bad engine if the low-tension piston rings and pistons are replaced. Obviously it got 300,000 miles and still runs, even with the massive oil consumption of the engine. How Does a Toyota Engine with 300,000 Miles Look Like On The Inside? - YouTube
There are other sites as well but I feel this one is a good place to start.
I have looked at the Carcomplaints web site and found it to be a waste of time .
One of my concerns with web sites that focus on complaints about a particular make or model is “confirmation bias”. If you only look in one place for problems, sure enough you will find some problems there. It remains unknown how many problems you would have found if you were looking somewhere else.
I presume you mean a Fiat 500 with 5 speed manual transmission w/ smaller non-turbo engine and no fancy options. It would still have the integrated dashboard display console. And automatic door locks and windows presumably. But the Lexus probably has something similar. So you think the fully-optioned Lexus with automatic transmission etc would prove to be more reliable than the base-simple-configuration 500 per above? hmmmm … well, you could be correct of course, but it would be more convincing if we could see some measured data comparing the two. The problem is, I doubt such data exists. My guess is the 500 would be more reliable in terms of the number of repairs needed per mile, needing fewer than the Lexus, but the 500’s repairs might be more significantly more expensive than the Lexus.
Here’s some measured data: One of my neighbors has 3 cars, Mercedes, Lexus, Tesla-3. All less than 10 years old. The Mercedes is the one that appears to be needing attention at the shop the most. The Tesla seems to need the least shop attention.
I provided you that data. Based strictly on reliability, the Lexus is on CR’s recommended list, the 500 on CR’s avoid it list. What more do you want?
It is not what George wants . It is what he does not want . He does not want to acknowledge that a vehicle with gadgets and nice features that most people want can be dependable .
Did CR compare the base model 500 (configured per above) to the fully optioned Lexus?
Not to get into it but the continuing pressure to improve mileage I think rushes new designs that are not ready for prime time. I had my Acura in the shop and was talking to the counter guy about how I liked it but was a little Leary of the four cyl turbo combo now instead of my v6. He said yeah, to replace the turbo is $7000. Who needs it? Maybe only two or three or five, I dunno but never needed a turbo with a v6.
If your ‘simpler cars are more reliable’ claim was correct, then these wouldn’t be the ratings. Several luxury car brands at the top, base brands at the bottom:
The potential problem I see with sites like car complaints is the bias created by volume. The higher sales number of a RAV4 might generate a lot of complaints, you probably won’t find much about Mitsu Eclipse Cross. Not sure how many Mitsubishi’s were sold in US. When I had a 2011 Mazda CX-9, Mazda had sold only 1500 units in a given yr. Not enough for any data. Even the Mazda dealer wasn’t stocking belts for it, I had to buy them from Ford.
I check the make/model specific forums though. Other than the recurring posts about certain things, I learn about the quirks of repairs and maintenance on a car.
