If the auto industry were at all interested in MPG...then why didn't fleet MPG improve even .01MPG from the last EPA increase?
Because consumers are more interested in large high performance cars than high mpg? Increases in engine efficiency can give you higher mpg, or it can allow you to sell larger more high performance cars at the same mpg. I feel that consumer demand has driven them to the later choice.
If mpg was the main factor in our buying decision, the streets would be full of 50-60 mpg cars and the big three would be competing to outdo that level of mpg if it meant getting a bigger share of the market.
If gas cost what it does in Europe, we would all be driving 50-60 MPG cars. And this would be so much better for the environment.
I would be happy if my car had half the HP. My trip times would be about the same, perhaps a few seconds longer. And driving would be safer if all were such.
True, but auto manufacturers budget millions for R&D anyway. This is all encompassed in R&D.
They budget millions for OTHER R&D…now they have to take that money and put it into R&D they that they don’t want to.
If mpg was the main factor in our buying decision, the streets would be full of 50-60 mpg cars and the big three would be competing to outdo that level of mpg if it meant getting a bigger share of the market.
Consumers can only buy what’s available. If companies aren’t making 50mpg vehicles…then consumers can’t buy it.
But there are 50 mpg vehicles, consumers mostly pass them up for something bigger and more powerful. Do you really think Chevy stopped selling Geo Metros because they were selling too many of them?
I dunno. In the early 70’s I don’t think mileage was the main factor but rather trying to meet the emissions requirements. On my 74, the carb adjustments were now limited with the plastic caps, and it had to have the shut off solenoid to close the throttle so it wouldn’t diesel it was set so lean. Then there were all the vacuum tubes, air pumps, and everything else to try and reduce emissions to meet federal standards. It was later on that MPG became more important so for GM, the answer was diesel and 4-6-8 V8. By the mid 80’s there was the fuel injection, FWD, OD transmissions, lighter cars and so on to meet the mileage requirements.
My memory could be a little foggy but those early 70’s cars were terrible because of the emissions equipment. This was all a fed mandate whether emissions or MPG. OK go ahead and throw the rotten tomatoes. I’ve gotta go out to the shop and make some saw dust anyway.
It seemed that a big improvement in drivability and efficiency came about when they finally started using catalytic converters to clean up the exhaust rather than trying to make engines squeaky clean.
Also, in the '70’s, the electronic technology needed for EFI electronic control units just wasn’t ready. TVs still used vacuum tubes back then and integrated circuits were in their infancy. I would hate to imagine a modern ECU based on transistors and printed circuit boards.
Ford tried something called PROCO back in the 70s ,dont think it ever got off the drawing board in a big way ,it took awhile for the electronics to catch up ,by this time the govt had pretty much stopped seeding the private sector with top secret tech ( and I am not saying alien tech either ,what do you think ultimately happens to all that black project tech ? I think Mr Corso may have got his sources messed up )
VOLVO V70
Since this has evolved to LED lights. All of outdoor holiday lights are led and I have noticed a real difference in the electric bill. We also have 4 large curio cabinets with collector glass on display and the led lights last so much longer that I feel they are less expensive.
We no longer have any incandescent light bulbs in our house and the compact florescent lamps are being replaced by LED lamps as they burn out. I like the way LED’s go to full brightness the moment you turn them on.
I know that it doesn’t cost that much to burn a 100 watt light bulb all night, but you also have to add the cost of having the air conditioning system remove the 342 BTU/hr of heat that a 100 watt incandescent light puts out.
Whenever there is a hard freeze warning, I put a 50 bulb string of Christmas lights around our outdoor faucet and then put a big plastic bucket over it. It hasn’t frozen on us yet.
But there are 50 mpg vehicles, consumers mostly pass them up for something bigger and more powerful. Do you really think Chevy stopped selling Geo Metros because they were selling too many of them?
Should have clarified…Auto manufacturers aren’t making MID-SIZE 50mpg vehicles. - which is what MOST people drive.
It seemed that a big improvement in drivability and efficiency came about when they finally started using catalytic converters to clean up the exhaust rather than trying to make engines squeaky clean.
Catalytic converters were out BEFORE companies tried to make engines clean. My 72 Vega had a catalytic converter. That was about the only emission control device on the vehicle.
Funny BLE… You sort of answered a question I had rattling round my head in the 90’s… I couldn’t understand the Enormous proliferation of Ford Explorers and larger vehicles when they hit us in that flood the way they did. I would constantly ask…why are we doing this? I had a few pretty slick Hondas at that time… I would always wonder why we did what we did…and I chalked it up to the Auto Makers and Big Oil and whatever pillow talk they laid down over the years.
While Japan and others were shooting for more efficient AND small or smallish…we went the other way almost at an insane time to do so. Next to my Honda Prelude those Explorers were growing in size and boy were they HEAVY. Full Frame, 4x4, V6…etc
I wound up with a nice Explorer and I honestly loved the thing…but I bought it for 750 bucks and drove it as a Utility vehicle for 12yrs and then sold it for 1000. It was one of the best trucks I ever had…but my point was…at the time…it was illogical in a conservation of resources/ do more with less sense.
I will always be puzzled by things like this…esp when there are political motivations mixed in somewhere… Im sure you guys can explain it better …I have NO MIND for politics almost Nil. If things were up to me…Id prob be living in a commune and trading goods for services and so forth. I hate money to be honest but it is a necessary evil in our society and doesnt seem to be falling out of favor…even as its intrinsic value falls…just like it did in Rome… lol
@MikeInNH wrote: “My 72 Vega had a catalytic converter”
GM didn’t introduce converters in any of their cars until 1975, when the emission limits became much tighter.
Here’s a news article by GM announcing it in 1974.
In 1972 the Vega had air injection and a thermal reaction chamber that perhaps looked like a cat converter from the outside.
See the specs for the '72 Vega, Power Train Section, page 9:
@B.L.E.
I’ve done the same, replacing bulbs with CFLs and now LEDs. Both have come down in price and both are now available as “dimmable.”
Besides lots of lamps and ceiling fixtures, I’ve got 2 chandeliers on dimmers that together take 14 bulbs, plus I have a total of 15 bulbs in outside entry and driveway light poles. I kept checking prices until It was economical to replace them with LEDs. I grabbed an S-load at Wal-Mart when they were blowing out 40 & 60 watt equivalent, dimmable LEDs for $2.88 and $2.44 each!
Those bulbs use only 5, 7, or 10 watts each, saving a ton of electricity. I have one of those “Kill-A-Watt” meters and have found them to be even a little more efficient than advertised! The pay-back is very quick.
I’m very thrifty and as the cost of electric service has crept up over the years, I have kept up on energy saving by evolving my bulbs and appliances ( and teaching my kids about not wasting energy) and I’ve maintained the same size electric bill over a few decades (not even adjusted for inflation, but actual dollars and cents on the bill).
Oh, and are you over a basement or crawl-space? My freeze-less outdoor spigots (valve is inboard, back a ways from outside wall, don’t require any help to keep from freezing, even at -30F, above 45th parallel), but I do unhook outside garden hoses during cold weather so they can self-drain properly. CSA
@meanjoe75fan I owned a '75 CVCC Civic.
It used ignition points and a manual choke.
So a mix of the new and the old.
It was however far more reliable than the '76 Nova 6-cyl. I had before.
GM didn't introduce converters in any of their cars until 1975
Your right…Memory isn’t what it use to be. I know my Chevy Luv truck did. Had problems with that.
But my statement still stands…Vehicle drivability problems were in the early to mid 80’s…AFTER the catalytic converter. Manufacturers were trying different things like Electronic controlled carbs and TBI.
Interesting Cat fact… One of the guys responsible for inventing and patenting the CAT…lives the next town over. Used to hang out at his house when I was a kid. Nice House too…
A big driveability problem was with carburetors that were leaned out to meet emission regs. Not until good fuel injection systems were installed did the driveability problems disappear. I had a 1988 Caprice with one of those lean feedback carbs and run-on and idling problems were rampant.
Ford’s Venturi unit was so bad that owners retrofitted their cars with older style units.
My 86 Buick Park Ave. and Riviera both had fuel injection and ECMs by then. 3800 V6, FWD, unibody, and actually got very good mileage, 25+. 85 was the last Riviera with a frame and V8 as I recall.
@common sense answer
Besides lots of lamps and ceiling fixtures, I've got 2 chandeliers on dimmers that together take 14 bulbs, plus I have a total of 15 bulbs in outside entry and driveway light poles. I kept checking prices until It was economical to replace them with LEDs. I grabbed an S-load at Wal-Mart when they were blowing out 40 & 60 watt equivalent, dimmable LEDs for $2.88 and $2.44 each!
While LED lights can be dimmable, the effect is not the same as dimming an incandescent light. When you dim an incandescent lamp, the color of the light changes, going from brilliant white to a warm candle light effect.
When you dim a LED light, you get the effect of moonlight.
When you dim a LED light, you get the effect of moonlight.
Cold-hearted orb that rules the night,
Removes the colors from our sight.
Red is gray and yellow - white,
But we decide which is right,
And which is an illusion.