What's the point of "manual" automatic trannys?

Having L and R next to each other also makes it relatively easy to “walk” a car sideways out of a tight spot, although doing so with standard rather than power steering was a bit of a workout. :grinning::sunglasses::innocent:

You had power steering, @Marnet. Armstrong power steering.

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One more reason these paddles are more common is because, with everything electronic, they’re relatively cheap. Some extra wires and a couple of switches. Back when shifting the transmission moved levers and valves, you wouldn’t want to pay for paddles on regular cars.

When I was purchasing my 2010 Kia Forte SX 6spd M/T the dealer had no 6spd M/Ts. I test drove a 6spd A/T. I had been dealing with the Internet Sales Manager which had been pleasant and productive. The test drive was with a regular salesman. He asked me why I wanted a M/T? I replied that I preferred the extra driver control of appropriate gear selection. He “informed” me that the car I was driving was a 6spd with Autostick so it was the same as a 6spd M/T. I informed him it was not. I had driven a Dodge Intrepid rental in the 1990s with that totally redundant/useless feature. I demonstrated by bumping the console mounted shift lever left to downshift then right to return to the previous gear. I then accomplished the same thing by pulling the lever back then pushing it forward. At least the test drive was mercifully short.

True, but it also presents an opportunity to break something for those who might be less than careful when shifting. That, I believe, is the reason that all modern automatic trannys have neutral between reverse and Drive. It’s less prone to a tragic tranny boo-boo. :grin:

MANUAL GEARS ARE FOR SPORT DRIVING (ie: RACING)

The higher the RPM, the more horsepower you are generating.
However, this is bad for gas mileage.

In racing, you will let the engine go to 6000+ RPMS.
It is the exact opposite of commuter car driving, where the auto tranny shifts at 3000.
In racing, you try to not let the RPM’s go UNDER 3000.

All racecars have manual gear control since the driver can downshift for a coming hill or turn.
There is no way for an automatic tranny to know this, since it does not have eyes.

Sport driving is NOT racing, or it shouldn’t be! They are not the same thing.

Manual shifting an automatic can be useful even in normal driving as well as “sporty” driving out on twisty mountain roads.

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2 decades ago, there were automatics that can hold a low gear when going up or down hills. A decade ago, Cadillac could sense different speed been left and right wheels as well as yaw to hold a lower gear when cornering above certain g.

Electronically controlled transmissions can do a lot more than those hydraulically controlled 3 speed transmissions

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A lot of the stuff used in racing is dictated by the rules of the sanctioning body. The number of gears in the transmission, the displacement and design of the engine, weight, waterline length, square ft of sail area, wing span…

Very, very true. The early days of “run what ya brung” are long gone.
Personally I think this philosophy inhibits technical progress, but they didn’t ask me. That’s a major reason I prefer European road races to NASCAR. There you’ll see factory-prepped cars from the different manufacturers that are truly different. Nothing against NASCAR, you understand, just a personal preference.

Racing and driving in a sporting manner aren’t the same thing

Depends on the engine. a stock 302 from a 1988 Mustang 5.0 or a Tuned Port 350 from a old F-Body will start running out of breath around 4500 RPM, by 5500 RPM (assuming you having shifted up) you’re mainly making noise,

Depends on the type of Racing, if you’re in F1, you’re not going to change gear until the engine is turning over 10k RPM, but if you’re partaking in a Rolex sports car GX class race, your engine won’t turn 6000 RPM to begin with.

Plenty of purpose-built drag cars are automatics, they are more consistent.

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Depends on the engine. a stock 302 from a 1988 Mustang 5.0 or a Tuned Port 350 from a old F-Body will start running out of breath around 4500 RPM, by 5500 RPM (assuming you having shifted up) you’re mainly making noise,

Yea, and the auto tranny shifts at 3000. Get it? And who races in a Mustang? LOL, Vanilla Ice?
I am talking real performance cars from Euro. They often redline at 6k, and you wanna be as close to redline at all times. MAX HP.

He wanted to know the purpose of being able to override the auto tranny gear shifts, and I told ya.

Happy Holidays!

This talk of automatics makes me recall a friend’s mother’s 1952 Buick Roadmaster with a Dynaflow transmission. We were 16, not very wise. The car was very softly sprung, and the transmission had an enormous amount of slippage. With the car parked, we could alternately press the brake and accelerator pedals so that the front of the car would move vertically with hardly any horizontal movement. We could get the front wheels off the ground this way. And now you know why my parents were happy to see my go away to college. :wink:

Well I race in a Mustang and it turns 7000 RPM with an automatic that bangs off those shifts at 7000. I also raced in an Iroc Z Camaro and it turned 6800. My Honda turned 9000 rpm, so what?

RPM, high or low, automatic or manual doesn’t mean a thing.

I know a lot of F-1 snobs who put down NASCAR, but the last time I watched a F-1 race on the TV, I fell asleep. When I woke up, the race only had a few laps to go and the winner pretty much did a horizon job on 2nd place.

Actually, one of the most exiting races I ever watched was the 1983 America’s Cup race when John Bertrand in Australia II won over Dennis Conner in Stars and Stripes. It’s a lot like car racing except the pit crew rides in the boat and work their butts off during a prolonged tacking duel.
Doing a flawless spinaker set takes just as much crew coordination as a flawless pit stop on a race car.

But then, I’ve done a lot of sailboat racing myself so it naturally interests me.

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with the accelerator floored, an automatic will usually run up to redline before shifting.

Plenty of people, The Mustang was very successful in SCCA competition, Trans Am racing, NASCAR, IMSA, etc.

The current GT-350R will embarrass a fair number of “real performance” cars from Europe.

LOL, most high end supercars will redline at or over 8000 RPM these days, and being close to redline doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to be at max HP. Relatively few car’s peak HP is at redline. Under the current F1 engine rules for example the maximum engine speed allowed is 15,000 RPM. However most drivers will upshift around 11-12k RPM because of the KERS and turbos they use now, there’s little reason to rev the engines that high because most of the power is below 12k RPM these days.

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IMHO Bernie Eckstein has pretty much forced F1 racing into a mold, similar to what NASCAR has done. I still prefer it to NASCAR, but I think it stifles innovation. At least it has right turns and hairpins.

with the accelerator floored, an automatic will usually run up to redline before shifting.

From this statement, it is clear you don’t know the first thing about actual racing (not drag racing) I already explained it, but you don’t get it. What do you do when a turn is coming? THAT is why every racecar on the planet has a manual gearbox (paddle or stick, not the point)

On the contrary, you’re the one making blanket statements without context. Such statements are easily disproven, as I’ve demonstrated in my previous responses. This will be no different.

If you watched any type of road racing, you’d know that driver typically does not upshift when approaching a corner, they downshift on the approach to the corner, so they will be able to get on the power at higher revs (not necessarily at redline, but high enough so that you’re in the meaty part of the power curve) when exiting the corner. But my statement about the the transmission remains true. When the accelerator is floored an automatic transmission will not upshift until redline or close to it.

I don’t dispute that most racecars use manual-controlled gearboxes. I do dispute the other remarks you’ve made.

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Great post. I think I can answer why automakers are putting paddle shifters into automatics and also why sometimes (not always) they make sense. I’ve owned a manual Supra, Integra, Civic SI and NC Miata. I LOVE to drive a manual in the right conditions - Touring, sporty driving, and on a racetrack (sometimes). However, as I got older (like in my late 20s) I found myself commuting in a stick-shift car and had enough of that misery. So I went to automatics. Later, I kept a fun stick-shift car, just for weekends, but that got old too when I saw the insurance and depreciation. So I opted for a 300+ hp coupe/convertible and I chose a paddle shift automatic. It offered me the ability to control the engine RPMs when touring and driving aggressively, and even when I wanted to approach an on-ramp in the powerband. The paddles also allow for engine braking approaching a corner. It was the perfect transmission for that sporty car, which I also used in other ways, including occasional "commuting."
Automakers can add paddle shifters for very little money, so these have proliferated to non-sporty vehicles. I recently polled my fellow auto-reviewers from within our own closed FB club. I simply asked, “How often do you use the paddle shifters in a test vehicle.” Most replied “Never.” A minority replied, “Only to test them*.” Even auto enthusiasts ignore these things on most cars. *Not all paddle shifted cars are the same. Some control an “F1” or DCT-style transmission. For example, every modern Ferrari, most Porsches, Alfa Romeo 4C, and many other high-performance cars. In these cars, one can drive in “auto” mode or opt for full paddle shift control. I can assure you, the paddles in these cars add to the enjoyment. Paddle-shifted sports cars are also faster than stick-shifted cars in most cases. I offer this BestRide link for anyone who wants to know more about the finer details of the mainstream and obscure transmissions available today.

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