Ford’s way around this on many of their cars is to no longer put the transmission cooler in the radiator. They put it in front of the radiator now. I believe that this was a result from a study they did about why transmissions were failing. (Another result was to remove the dipstick so that people would stop overfilling or putting the wrong fluid in.)
My last post didnt make it, so I will try again.
After the car being in the shop all day long. I called, and they said that in fact the TCC solenoid is on top of the tranny, and the whole thing has to come out.
I dont know what to believe. The only reason I have my doubt is that the guy said that if I am going to spend over $600 to fix it, I should just rebuild the whole thing. That would be $1300.00. I have been taken so many times at a transmission shop, and I am leary of what to think.
If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.
Thanks again so much, JR
Is there any way to find out for sure where the darn thing is located. Its not that I dont trust him, but again, he made it sound like I really needed to get it rebuilt.
I have read some of the replies here. I myself, like transman have been working on transmissions for MANY years.
The bottom line is this, transman is correct about heat being generated & the loss of fuel economy with the lock converter disconnected. In some vehicles with a 3 speed auto transmission leaving the TCC non functional is a mistake. It will cook the fluid in a hurry along with the fuel economy loss. There are many factors that play into “some vehicles”. Engine torque, Converter stall speed & axle ratio are all key factors.
With all the wrong factors stacked on one side of the scale, YES the trans will run much hotter and break the lubricant properties down in the trans fluid. If all the odds are on your side you will lose some fuel economy & the trans will run a little warmer but it will not kill the trans. The key here is knowing where your vehicle stands. It takes a qualified trans tech to test drive to determine how excess slippage is going on.
I have been in the trans business for 35 years. I now do transmission research & engineering in El Monte ca. Be careful what you read. I have spoken to many do it your self people who have gathered info from the the web. Most of the people should not be posting any thing that they are not qualified to talk about. People are mislead and confused and waste there time & money.
My advice, find reputable transmission shop and have them look at your car. Transmissions are one the most complex components on a car & the most expensive to fix. Remember the slogan, “Spend a little now or a lot later”
My best, Mark
I dont know what to believe.
You don’t happen to be in Florida, are you?? Thieves are thick as buffalo (when buffalo were thick). They shake down seniors all the time …figuring they have too much money. They lighten the load for them. It also affects the non-senior wallet.
Transman, here is one of your posts:
Re read what I said, in fact never mind, I’ll post it here again for you. “Get on the expressway, get up to 60, 70, 75… With no more lockup, the converter clutch is slipping its life away at high speed. Since the converter is not designed to dissapate that much heat at one time it starts to balloon, then it turns blue, then it fails internally.” There is nothing in my post referring to overheating around town. In fact it states that converters are capable of dissapating heat at pre lockup speed. Every link I posted supports my statements. You state that highway vehicles use lower stall converters to reduce heat. We are not talking about lower stall converters. And we’re not talking about vortex flow. We are talking about heat being generated by disconnecting the converter clutch and driving with it disconnected. I stand by my statements.
You say that at highway speeds with the TCC unplugged that the converter clutch is slipping it life away. Just why would the clutch be slipping? Several times on here you comment about the clutch slipping Also, when I stated that highway vehicles use lower stall converters, I was quoting one of your links, and they WERE talking about lower stall converters. I also bet my vehicle would get just as good gas mileage with the clutch unlocked because it is geared too high for “lockup”. The engine runs too slow, and has to downshift on much of a hill.
In the post above here, mapuccinelli says “If all the odds are on your side you will lose some fuel economy & the trans will run a little warmer but it will not kill the trans.”
What are you talking about? You had to know what he was saying. You can’t POSSIBLY BE NITPICKING, CAN YOU
You say that at highway speeds with the TCC unplugged that the converter clutch is slipping it life away. Just why would the clutch be slipping?
The CONVERTER IS SLIPPING. THAT’S ALL. The clutch can’t engage. Very simple. The higher stall converter is spinning away with differential …generating heat.
He is nitpicking. Poor old guy just needs something to do, bless his little heart. Even when another trans guy posted confirming what I said was true, he didn’t question him. My first post read like this:
Disconnecting the lockup solenoid will not only cause a loss of MPG but it will cause the transmission to run much hotter and depending on how hot your trans is running normally it can most definitely cause the transmission to overheat.
This meaning depending on how hot your trans runs, or the condition of your trans will determine whether the excess heat will harm it or not. And like mapuccinelli said, it takes a qualified trans tech to see just how much slipping is going on and the condition of the customers trans. I’m glad the OP decided to fix it. He’s got 200k on this trans which the 125C is a pretty stout trans. I have no vested interest in the repair of his trans and not knowing the condition of his 200k trans I would hate to not tell him what could happen and he post back in a month looking for a repair shop.
transman
I looked up the owners manuals for a Ford Crown Victoria and a Chevrolet Caprice on the subject of towing. And here’s what they recommend.
“To eliminate excessive shifting of the transmission lock up torque converter. place the transmission into D3. This will also assist in transmission cooling.”
Tester
Yea, I’m nitpicking some, but why do you insist that with the TCC unplugged, at highway speed, would be slipping it’s life away? You have mentioned the TCC slipping several times in your posts. Answer this and I’ll “rest my case”.
The OPs car is 17 years old with 200K miles on it, I surely wouldn’t pay someone $200 or a lot more to fix the TCC.
Also, as for me having nothing to do, I see you on here as much as I am!!
No Oklahoma. I have never found a tranny shop here that was honest. That is really sad, but I am one that believes that how you treat people, it will come back on you 10 fold! It will come back on them.
I am relieved to know that I can go ahead and fix the thing myself. Getting so many different stories, I just didnt know what to believe. Once we took the tire and cover off yesterday, and was able to see the tranny pan, I know that we should not have that hard of a time replacing it.
Someone did post that the wires might be a challenge, but I am up for it right now. I just want to get it fixed!
I would like to have just pulled the plug on top that goes to the TCC solenoid, but my hubby is paranoid about it, so we are going to spend the $29 and try to put it in.
My car runs great for having 204.000 miles. And like I have said before, I have seen several at pull-a-part here in the OKC area that have had over 250.000 before they ended up in the yard. We only put about 9000 miles a year on this car. Yes some of them could have an overhaul in the past, but still. My car runs great otherwise, and adding this couldnt make it worse, unless we have trouble with the wires. But we will find that out this friday!
Word of warning! If any of you work around parts cleaning solvent. Please be careful! My husband ended up having to quit work, and is now on SSDI because of brain damage from 26 years of being around it. He rebuilt tractor and 18 wheeler cluthes for 26 years. He also worked around asbestos from the brake linings they worked on in the same shop. I am really scared that it will cause the mesothelioma you hear about on the news all the time. His best friend died from leukemia that was caused by that crap in 2002. Please take your precautions from that stuff!
Thanks again to everyone, Julie
Exactly! Doesn’t just shifting into the second selection to the right of neutral bypass the TCC and just run the transmission in its normal gears without lockup?
Why disconnect any wires?
Well, it depends on whether it is a 4 speed or 3 speed. If it is a 4 speed and you downshift one notch to 3rd, it will lockup in 3rd.
Exactly! Doesn’t just shifting into the second selection to the right of neutral bypass the TCC and just run the transmission in its normal gears without lockup?
Why disconnect any wires?
No, the only way to avoid TCC is to manually move the shift lever to L2 or L1. Dropping the shift lever from D4 to D3 just locks out overdrive but it will not lock out TCC. You will still have lockup in D3.
[b] I looked up the owners manuals for a Ford Crown Victoria and a Chevrolet Caprice on the subject of towing. And here’s what they recommend.
“To eliminate excessive shifting of the transmission lock up torque converter. place the transmission into D3. This will also assist in transmission cooling.”
Tester[/b]
This is accurate. Unless you’re transmission is set up for towing it is always best to tow in D3. You will still have lockup but you wont be falling in and out of lockup like you will in a higher gear which means the trans will run cooler. My Dodge Ram Dually tows in overdrive, I have built this trans to HD specs and can safely tow in overdrive with the converter clutch locked up.
transman
when I stated that highway vehicles use lower stall converters, I was quoting one of Transman’s links, and they WERE talking about lower stall converters, not higher stall converters.
How would I know he meant the converter was slipping when he said several times the TCC was slipping.
Transman, at least we can agree on one thing, I agree with your post above.
There is plenty of work without opening transmissions so I don’t get beyond maintenance on them. I have, however, diagnosed quite a few stalling issues as TCC problems and disconnected the harness on GM vehicles to confirm my guess and left it disconnected, recommending the customer get to a transmission shop. Many cars are never seen again but quite a few are regular customers and they return with the wire still pulled out with no problems for years. Enough have been through here to know that disconnecting the TCC won’t pose an imminent problem. But I will defer to the transmission experts’ advice professionally and on this forum. And ain’t it funny that regularly maintained transmissions rarely had any problems, including the TCC.
Just got the new solenoid on. Now the fun part, getting everything put back and the gasket on right! I am so glad that I did not pay someone money to do this! Now to hope that it solves my problem, and the car doesnt die anymore.
Its 73 degrees right now, but tomorrow we are suppose to have 6 to 14 inches of snow. I dont work on cars when its cold! Even with a space heater! LOL.
Thanks again to everyone!
Julie
Awesome job!!! Some vehicles dont have enough room to remove that pan and you have to lower the engine cradle. Thats where all the labor comes in. Let us know how everything works once you get it on the road.
transman
We felt lucky getting that off so easily.
Can you tell me how tight the bolts on the cover need to be? We just got all of them on, and my hubby wants to make sure we put them on right.
Thanks, Julie
We went ahead and got everything back together and drove about 30 miles on the highway. Stopped 3 times, and it did just fine! I hope that its fixed for good. Of course I dont want to speak too soon. We have actually drove about 200 miles before and it would quit doing it before it started up again.
At least it seems ok for now.
Thanks again to everyone!
Julie