you won’t be able to open either hand-crank or electric windows if you’re underwater—the pressure on the window is just too great.
I think the recommendation for escaping a submerged (underwater) car, to avoid this pressure problem, is to wait until the passenger compartment is mostly full of water – keeping your head in the airspace at the top in order to breath – then roll down the window or open the door and escape. It’s going to be harder to open the door than the window, and the door might be obstructed so it won’t open at all, in which case the window is the only means of escape. Me, in that situation, by far I’d prefer to be in a car with manual windows.
Thanks to all for the good comments. I’m not in the market for a new car. I’m happy w/my early 90’s Corolla nd early 70’s Ford truck. But if I am someday in the market for a new car , it’s unlikely I’ll be looking at the 2014 Corolla or similarly equipped Corolla. I don’t want a car that big, and all that stuff like AC and power windows they are forcing me to purchase. I’ll be looking for a car sized similar to the current Corolla, and with a 5 speed manual and no AC.
8 airbags is a lot safer than 6? The more the better? Well, I guess I don’t particularly care how many airbags it has, provided it is priced competitively. Being an admitted cheapo, I wouldn’t pay a dime extra for a car with 8 airbags if I can find a similar car with 2,4, or 6 airbags for less dough. Maybe I’m a thrill seeker, like those I see everyday who ride their motorcycles on the freeway. (I did have a motorcyle as a teenager, a 90 cc Suzuki, which was a heck of a lot of fun.) So I’m willing to take on some risk myself, in exchange for a lower sticker price. Perhaps not to the extent of riding a motorcyle on the freeway, but I’m perfectly happy with the cost/benefit compromise of being less than 100% safe.
The Solution is simple George, don’t drive into the lake!
I like my car which HAS all the luxuries you’re decrying, because I drove old junk that had NONE of these niceties for so many years. One day, after putting in new brake shoes in -20F weather, I decided I WANTED a newer car that had a few frills, by golly. One of the reasons I chose my Cruze is because GM finally figured out that people who wanted decent gas mileage weren’t necessarily willing to put up with cheap stripped down econo-boxes.
Hey @DrRocket … I’m totally down with you buying the car you like. With the options you like. No worries there. I’m just saying I don’t like being forced to buy features I don’t need or want, and if I have an alternative by choosing a different make/model, I’ll go that route.
Cons Reports seems very down on the Yaris. If I were looking at a new car today, and the only thing Toytoa was offering was the Yaris and the 2014 Corolla (in my price range), I’d probably drive over to Honda and see how I liked the Fit.
I’ve spent lots of time driving on the frozen lakes. If the windows are closed, you can’t get the doors open until the car is submerged. So you drive with the windows down and even with the door partly open and no seat belts, ready to bail out if the ice cracks. Also if the car starts to go down, opening the door up will help hold the car on the ice. Power windows may or may not work under water but headlights do for a while. Crank windows do work but if you are really concerned, just carry one of those spring type punches to punch the window out. The idea though is to stay out of the water one way or the other. You can be dead in no time due to loss of body heat and the shock of the cold water.
Just out of curiosity, how old are you, George?
I’m not even going to comment on your post, because I think you’re just stirring up comments.
And honestly, if I were in the market for a small car, like the Corolla, I would most likely buy the new Mazda 3 when it comes out later this year. I certainly wouldn’t hold any of your list of “complaints” about the Corolla against it though. Ever single one of those things you mentioned would be a plus in my book.
The biggest problem I have with small cars is the lack of rear disk brakes.
I simply hate rear drums.
I generally agree with VDCdriver. It’s reasonable for a manufacturer to choose not to accommodate the tiny percentage of people who don’t want air conditioning.
Do you drive your cars into the ground? If not, then the lack of air conditioning will reduce your resale value and make it more difficult to sell the car.
I’d also like to point out a minor safety issue. With no air conditioning or power windows, you might find yourself at a stoplight with the windows rolled down and no quick way to roll them up if a threatening-looking person approaches the car. That’s a situation I’d prefer to avoid.
I agree about the styling. I will buy a Corolla ( owned three clones before) when we return to civilization and don’t need 4 wd for daily driving. But, the plan is to keep it in an unlit garage, feel my way to the car, then, while inside, open the garage door with the remote. All so I won 't be offended by the styling. When outside, I need to learn a way to back into the car. Once inside, I see no problem with the new Corolla.
If I were in a submerged car, my first inclination would be to scream and kick everything in sight !
It is interesting how many people’s tastes change in automobiles over time. When I was growing up, my dad bought cars that were the stripped models and he bought them second hand at that. The cars we had didn’t even have radios. However, he bought a 1947 Desoto as a second car and the Desoto had a working radio. Every car from that time on had to have a radio. He ordered a brand new car in 1963–a Studebaker Lark. He didn’t get power steering or an automatic transmission, but he did get the V-8 engine. That car would really go. In 1966 he found a really nice 1963 Buick LeSabre with all the accessories except power windows. He really liked that car and sold the Studebaker to my brother.
In 1963, I took his Studebaker to the dealer for service. While I was waiting for the car, I wandered into the showroom and on the floor was a stripped Studebaker. The price was $1495 for a brand new car. I said something to my brother about the car who said something to my parents. My mother was worried about the old car I was driving as a graduate student. My dad thought we should go back and look at the car. I had about $500 I could spend on a car and would have borrowed $1000 from my parents. My dad, who had purchased bottom of the line cars in his earlier years took one look at that stripped Studebaker and said, “You want something better than that” and tried to talk me into a more expensive car. I had too much pride to borrow more money than $1000, so I decided to keep my old car.
When cruise controls came along, my dad didn’t think the expense was necessary. He bought a new Buick Century in 1978 that didn’t have a cruise control. My mother told me that my dad’s legs ached when they would take a trip in the car. I made up some excuse to switch cars with him for a day–I told him that I was taking some friends on a 50 mile trip and one person had trouble getting into the back seat of my 2 door Oldsmobile Cutlass. I had made arrangements to take my dad’s Buick to have a cruise control installed for his birthday. When I brought his car back, I left the instructions for the control hanging on the turn signal lever. The next day, he and my mother took a 100 mile round trip to eat at a nice restaurant to celebrate his birthday. He thought the cruise control was wonderful and each of the two cars he owned after that had a cruise control.
As our son now points out to me, old age has its privileges and I deserve a few luxuries in life. I no longer have Studebaker Scotsman tastes.
When discussing whether the Corolla purchaser should be forced to have this option or that option, it is sort of hard to form an opinion witouth the pricing included. In other words, who cares if it has 8 airbags and AC and power windows if the price is right. If you don’t like having AC in your car, you can remove it. If you don’t like power windows, you can revert to manual windows I expect. And you can just ignore the airbags, however many there are. You can treat the unwanted airbags like they are invisible. And having to shift through 6 speeds, tho a chore, isn’t that much of a problem, plus you do get some mgp benefit, so who cares? So from that perspective, the more, the better.
But if the price of the unwanted options are included in the discussion, then I expect opinions might change. For example, if your option is a Corolla with 6 unwanted airbags, unwanted power windows, unwanted 6 speeds, and unwanted AC, which makes the car cost $29,000 vs. another similar make/model without the unwanted items, only 2 airbags, manual windows, no AC, 5 speed manual, for $22,000, now which do you choose? To me, that’s the question the car buyer will have to ruminate about.
“If you don’t like having AC in your car, you can remove it. If you don’t like power windows, you can revert to manual windows I expect”
Not in any reasonable way. There will be no way to convert to crank, and the a/c is an integral part of the vent system.
@texases … Isn’t it possible to remove the AC compressor and all the rubber hoses attached? That is the stuff that gets in the way of doing the routine maintenance and fixing problems when they occur. I guess maybe if AC is standard – i.e. thre are no cars of that make sold without AC – the pump can’t be easily removed as something has to be there to hold on to the serpentine belt at that location.
What to do about the power windows then? hm … I guess one option would be to just live with them until they break, then take things apart and see if there’s a way to revert to manuals. With my limited car skills, well, some duct tape might be needed … lol …
Cars are designed to have many of these options. You would not like the venting system on a new car without AC in some situations. When daughter’s AC stopped working, he Accord seemed much worse as far as fogging was then if it were designed without AC. In many cases, it’s economics. It’s cheaper tooling made for some options that most want then for all cars then deleting the options in some.
Well, anything’s possible, buy why? Why go through major mechanical hell to get rid of something that may never cause a problem for the life of the car? The a/c won’t block any normal maintenance, I’d bet.
I’m guessing for George, it’s the principal of the thing. I know other people who think the same way, my dad being one of them. “Iffen I don’t want air conditioning, why the H&^% should I be forced to PAY for it?!?”
It’s not really the principal, to me at least. It’s Toyota’s decision, not mine. I’m just voicing my opinion is all, per the 2014 Corolla link provided from the main Car Talk page. My opinion is no better than anybody elses. While I’ve been a 20 year Corolla owner, I’m not wedded to the Corolla econobox mystique. Whatever the new Corolla is, is fine w/me. Next time I buy a car I’ll choose the one that best suits my needs, and if there are several, I’ll choose the least expensive among them. If it turns out to be the 2014 Corolla, then that is the one I’ll buy.
The question I’m posing is: Will the new version of the Corolla – with the changes as described – will it be as successful in the markplace as the prior versions? Me, I don’t think so.
HUH, I saw a car today that might fit the bill-A new Fiat. It looks the same as the one I used to deliver chicken dinners with in 1965.
I agree with most posters that cars are gradually going upmarket, no matter where you are. The basic Tata Nano car in India is not selling well; buyers already want all sort of “extras”.
Our first car, a 1941 Chevy had no cigarette lighter, no ashtray, no turn signals, etc. Today’s basic vehicles have as standard all those things that were “optional” 20 years ago. Even with my 1965 Dodge dart, I had to pay extra for “variable speed wipers”, radio, rear seat belts, windshield washers, under hood sound pad, and a number of other things.
Times change and everyone had the right to regress or be nostalgic. I personally like the things most people like in cars, and standard air and automatic are just fine with me.
Manufacturers learned long ago…customers are willing to pay for added features. That’s one reason the base models have all the features of the mid to high-end models had 20 years ago. My friend who owns a dealership in NY…was telling me one time about the left over Pontiacs…they were all base models. No one was buying vehicles without AC or power windows (they all had crank windows and no AC). He sold them BELOW what he paid for them. He actually stopped ordering vehicles without AC (unless someone wanted one…VERY RARE).
My 4runner is a base model…it has all the features I need/want - AC, power windows, decent stereo with CD.
When I was a kid, our house had a coal furnace and no stoker. There was a control in the dining room with a chain that went to the basement. If the house became too cool, you turned the know that controlled the chain which then opened the damper on the furnace. However, you might have to throw more coal into the furnace. It was central heat that did heat the house evenly as opposed to a heating stove in the parlor. We thought it was great when we were able to get gas service and put a conversion burner in the furnace and added a blower fan. Automatic heat was really great. The school I attended had steam heat, but no thermostat control. If things were too cold, the teacher had someone open the valve on the radiator and when things became too hot the valve was closed.
Now few people would build a house today without central automatic heat and public school buildings have elaborate HVAC systems to keep the buildings comfortable. In fact, I haven’t seen a new home built in my area that doesn’t have central air conditioning. Since we drive more miles in our cars, I can see why motorists want air conditioning.