We start out with a gross measurement.If the tank holds 15 (just for example) and the needle is at half but when I go to the pump I can put 14 gallons in,this is a big clue that a problem still exists. This is not real tough to get a handle on.
In addition to knowing we have a gague accuracy issue we do know for sure that the tank now has at minimum what we just put in it so we have dropped the potential for our customer to run out totaly unexpectedly to almost zero. So now the customer knows both,his car just got 14 gallons put in, he knows roughly what mileage is to be expected, and he knows how far he is driving. Keeping yourself from running out of gas is not difficult at all even if both the gague does not function and the odometer does not function because you can keep track of what you put in and the distances to the places you drive ( maybe with one of those new fangled things called a map). This is street survival 101 type stuff as it won’t be the mechanic walking even if it is his fault you are walking,at least you will have something to stew about on you hike.
What is your reasoning for thinking the shop should fix the gague problem at their expense, simply because they did not continue with the job after they found and repaired the broken wires? If the wire repair was done incorrectly the shop should be on the hook to do the wire repair again, not fix a sending unit or gague that they never laid a hand on, or is this exactly why you think the shop should fix the sending unit or the gague, because they never laid a hand on it when they had a chance?
What is your reasoning for thinking the shop should fix the gague problem at their expense, simply because they did not continue with the job after they found and repaired the broken wires?
I think (at least in my opinion) the reasoning is that the shop wasn’t just paid for the repair. The shop was also paid for the diagnosis. It doesn’t matter whether the repair was at fault or the diagnosis was at fault. The OP didn’t get what he paid for, because the shop didn’t deliver on its promise.
Honestly, if I paid for a diagnosis, and my mechanic said he knew with certainty how to fix the problem, I would hold him to his word. If he wasn’t sure, and said so, and I authorized the repair anyway, I would assume the risk that it might not solve my problem.
Well the repair of the wire did not fail so we are good there. They were not wrong to say the wire was broken because it was so we are good there. Now we know the gague is inaccurate, diagnosis is that you need a new sending unit,(that diagnosis is inclusive). Would you like to buy a new sending unit, the cost is xxx parts and labor?
I have worked for shop owners who would tell the mechanic he would not be paid for any labor required to repair an item that mechanic missed the first time, it was either fix it for free or quit (or be fired, but he would rather you quit as you could pull unemploymrnt benifits if the reason you were fired was you refused to work for free). Mind you we are talking about additional work, not the work you actually did that went wrong,the wire did not fail and no further diagnostic charge to be told you need a sending unit.The owner would try and pull Whiteys’ line of reasoning with unemployment and be told "NO " you have to pay the mechanic if he does new work, but you are certainly free to fire him, just he is entitled too benifits.
Has anybody stated that the wire repair failed? And Whitey your annoying points could also be considered numerous. Remember I am not here to please you.
I am sure that mechanics make a diagnosis and it turns out that further unseen damage was present in many repair jobs every day. This is the precursor to getting that call that says “we have found something else”, trouble is here there was no indication too continue the diagnostic process. So we continue the process for free and it leads us to tell you you need a sending unit, I present you with this estimate for parts and labor only, no further diagnostic charges.
Now if the OP had said when he picked up the car, "I see the gague is reading 1/3 full, there is no way I can have that much gas in the car as I know how much I put in and I know how far I drove and I have a good idea what mileage I get, so I better fill up just in case that gague is as I suspect,telling me something that is not true, then he would not have ran out of gas.
What question have I asked and then argued with the answer? perhaps the answer deserved an argument.
I never got an answer from the OP . Tony, when you called the shop and explained to them the gas gauge was innacurate, what did the Service Manager say?
Did you call the shop back? Did you give them a chance to fix the problem.
As posted previously, the gas gauge probably didn’t work before the rodent chewed through the wiring.The mechanic fixed the wiring and had no clue how much fuel was in the tank to begin with.
If I was the shop manager, I would have apologized and taken in your car immediately to determine what happened. As a goodwill gesture, I would have absorbed the labor and paid the mechanic to replace the fuel sending unit. You, would have paid for the part.
I would then explain to you that by fixing your wiring, the mechanic would have no clue that your gas gauge didn’t work.We never get “The rest of the story”!
We start out with a gross measurement.If the tank holds 15 (just for example) and the needle is at half but when I go to the pump I can put 14 gallons in,this is a big clue that a problem still exists. This is not real tough to get a handle on.
In addition to knowing we have a gague accuracy issue we do know for sure that the tank now has at minimum what we just put in it so we have dropped the potential for our customer to run out totaly unexpectedly to almost zero. So now the customer knows both,his car just got 14 gallons put in, he knows roughly what mileage is to be expected, and he knows how far he is driving. Keeping yourself from running out of gas is not difficult at all even if both the gague does not function and the odometer does not function because you can keep track of what you put in and the distances to the places you drive ( maybe with one of those new fangled things called a map). This is street survival 101 type stuff as it won’t be the mechanic walking even if it is his fault you are walking,at least you will have something to stew about on you hike.
I’m not questioning the ability to get a gross measurement check and know if it’s off by 1/4 tank or more. I’m talking about a couple gallons. Lots of people drive until they MUST get gas. Even my chea…I mean inexpensive Chevy has a gas warning that goes off with less than 2 gallons in the tank. Your gross test isn’t going to be that accurate. Do you think your customer is going to be any less angry when he’s stranded because the alarm never went off and it showed slightly above the red zone? Two gallons or ten, the result is the same.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your proposal as I think most reasonable people would accept it and even do some checking themselves. I know I would. But we’re addressing a situation where there is ZERO tolerance for error. Contrast that against the guy who recently posted about the axle seal 6 months after an axle replacement. Totally different reaction to something that cropped up on a recent repair.
I brought this senario up in my Logic 120 class this morning. It is a beginning logic class dealing with things like commom fallicies and general rules for constructing an argument that follows rules for critical thinking. The instructor is 68 years old and holds a academic Phd (some offshoot in Biology, his disertation was how logic can be applied to biological processes), he is a pretty knowledgeable mechanic and sails a sailboat, he is no dummy by any means.
After some consideration the professor said the shop did not error in any way by not continuing the diagnostic process. He did say his answer was based on the fact that the needle was not pegged either totaly full or totaly empty and the shop had no reason to believe that something was still in error. He added the shop could be some what in error if a TSB existed and they did not at least look this condition over. I did not agree with him about the TSB deal. My professor added that all an attorney would do was charge him for half an hour and the customer would lose any case brought.
Now the students, they presented a totaly different viewpoint, almost unnaminously I may add. The students all felt that a person should be able to pick up their car and not have too double check any work that the mechanic did and they also felt that no problem even remotely related too the work done should present itself so soon.
Turbo- If not a gross test, and if not someone running out of gas, what is going to give someone the idea that the accuracy of the gas gague needs to be tested? Are you saying that every shop that repairs the wires to someones sending unit must also bear the cost of verifying the gague accuracy? That would not at all be fair to the shop. You are proposing a situation where the gague said 1/3 full and we were able to get half of what the total capacity is in? you think this result would not be enough to alert someone?
One thing that would result from my gross test is that at least now the tank would be full and second you would have SOME idea that further testing is called for.
A total new issue, I have a problem with an accuracy concern and a total inop condition both developing at the same time. What I am getting at is I think it is highly likely that the OP knew his gague was not accurate and just tried to go too far without filling up, thinking if he ran out any harm that came to him would be covered by the shop because they fixed the wires, well that was wrong to conclude.
Oldschool, if a plumber came in and fixed my toilet,I would flush it to see if it works.
Waiting to try the toilet when I had to really have to use it, might be disasterous.Ask your class if they would do the same .
Car repair isn’t easy,right?Mistakes can’t be covered up by pushing a button on a keyboard. You can’t talk your way out of a situation when the car you fixed comes back on a tow truck
In our business, just like any other profession, there are good mechanics and then the terrible [people]mechanics that destroy our profession.
Most people don’t understand that we have to deal with alot of different people, as just about every one has a car. Not every one has a jet ski, or a boat,airplane,own a home,have a pet, etc… but absolutely every one has a car and goes ballistic if it needs repairs or maintenance.
I mean, YES a fuel gauge isn’t “mission-critical,” AND the breakdown was caused by lack of due diligence by OP, but a shop should at least inform a customer if they were unable to verify proper ops of a system on a car before putting that car back in service. (For instance, what if it were the brakes that weren’t verified to work properly? Shouldn’t the shop reveal that they were unable to do so before turning the car over?)
Granted, I’d not be gullible enough to run the tank dry like OP…but if I were, I’d at least float the idea of getting further diagnostics comped.
I don’t care if I’m on salary or being paid hourly, the reason you charge the customer more than you pay the mechanic is to handle this type of situation. I get billed out at $125 an hour and collect about $30 an hour. Work for NO money? We need to take a walk around the block and have a talk. If the mechanic fails to fix something, you counsel him, and either bill the customer for the extra work or absorb the expense, but you don’t screw the people working for you, even when they mess up (assuming it’s the first time).
Um, don’t know what planet you live on, but not everyone has a car. Case in point: New York City. Perhaps you’ve heard of it. It’s been in the news pretty often.
IMHO the mechanic had no reason that I can see to suspect the accuracy of the gage once the gage became operable.
And, even if he should have suspected the gage’s accuracy, contesting the credit card charge would not be an appropriate response…nor is it a productive response. A productive response would have been to simply tell him what happened and let him take another look at the car. If he detected the need for a new sender or a new gage, charging for this would be perfectly appropriate…as he would have charged for it had he detected a bad sender or gage in the first visit.
IMHO Tony’s response is unrealistic, inappropriate, driven by rage at having missed his flight, and will be counterproductive. I see no hope for a good outcome in his challenging the credit card charge. I accept that his response may also be resultant from lack of experience in repairing cars. Anyone who’s worked on anything as complicated as a car knows that a problem can “hide behind” another problem, much as the inaccurate gage “hid behind” the gage’s totally discontinuing operating, and the hidden defect can be missed by even the best technician. Once the gage is made operational, its inaccuuracy could easily not be detected. Even the best tech could believe the problem to be fixed. And all of us deserve a second chance. A reasonable man would have given the shop a chance to take a second look.
Tony, if a customer of yours refuses to pay for work done because you made an honest oversight without giving you a chance to correct it, and your comission is cancelled, you may want to remember that this is exactly how you’ve treated others.
You asked what I think is reasonable. You asked what I thought. There it is.
Although I suspect Tony has gone on to find other battles to fight by now.
OK zombie, but keep in mind that 75% of all Firefighters are volunteers, so I would say the majority of Americans at this point don’t live in a big city.
New york has its fair share of vehicle owners. Look at all the traffic jams.
There is one mechanic per every 20,000 vehicles in this country.How many computer repair geeks are there compared to the amount of computers out there?
If fuel gauge repairs are as difficult as some of the respondents seem to think they are, maybe NO ONE should ever claim to be able to fix them. However…by all means go back to the shop, speak to the OWNER, tell them what happened and have them fix it…no charge, of course.
Leave the drama at the door; people rarely respond positively to displays of anger. There’s nothing wrong with letting them know you’re dissatisfied with the repair, but ire and threats like “I’m gonna report you to…whomever” or “I’m never coming back here again”, (even if true) won’t get you anywhere.
Personally, I’d also ask for an explanation of 1) what they did to fix it and 2) why that wasn’t done in the first place.