+1
One of these “technical institutes” calls itself UTI.
Why would anyone want a diploma bearing the same name as the medical abbreviation for Urinary Tract Infection?
I always dissuaded my students from the for-profit technical diploma mills. Many of the 2 year county colleges offer a far-superior program at just a fraction of the tuition charged by the for-profit diploma mills. Trust me, the stories that were told to me by students who didn’t take my advice, and who later verbalized their tales of woe–after paying those for-profit charlatans–would curl your hair.
If that turns out to be the case . . . as I suspect . . . then Toyota corporate can rescind the CPO status, because it never qualified in the first place
I’ve seen it happen a few times, and people at the dealer get their ear(s) chewed off
A Toyota field technician has inspected the engine, they are not high school drop outs. Field techs are usually very thorough and document their inspections.
I can’t think of a bigger scam than any for-profit “college”, “university”, or “technical institute”. Even the high-cost payday lenders charging more than 1000% APR are a bargain compared to these “schools”. At least people can discharge payday loans through bankruptcy, whereas student loans can follow you to the grave.
Probably the best thing Obama did as President was go after these for-profit “schools” and turn off the spigot of federal student loan funding to those with the worst outcomes for graduates. The “schools” then went bankrupt themselves as a result, imagine that.
I can think of one unaccredited “university” that did not go out of business until a major lawsuit loss in 2018 forced them to refund millions of $$ to their bilked students. I won’t name it because then I would be accused of being “political”.
This bothered me since you first posted it. I’d like to know how determining the height of the piston at TDC is possible without removing the heads. I doubt that the heads were removed since that’s a lot of work. If a bent rod resulted in a shorter stroke, then that should show up in the compression numbers. Since they were all 190 psi, I do not believe there is a bent rod. Maybe one if the pros can explain it to me if I’m wrong.
One (of several) reasons why the original compression may have been low and is now high is because there could have been a problem with the compression tester; OR the guy using it. Sometimes a tiny piece of dirt may stick in the tester’s Schrader valve. This means that the tester allows a bit out after inhaling a bit of compression in which then provides an inaccurate reading. This is not only a tester fault but a tester user fault from someone who should realize this.
I’ve got 5 compression testers. Anytime I’ve ever seen a potential problem (even with a good tester) I always double check with another tester to make sure. I never want to tell someone they have a major engine problem unless I’m 100% sure.
As for field techs; they are hit and miss. I’ve had issues with a VW tech and 2 Subaru techs who were for lack of a better phrase; slightly mechanically inept. I remember once a VW tech tellling me that CIS fuel injection is the greatest system ever. They never, ever have a problem and if they do it’s because someone never changed the fuel filter. Change the filter regularly and the hood never, ever needs to come up. Anyone familiar with CIS knows that is pure, unadulterated bunk.
As for UTI. consider that Roger Penske owns 3 or 400 car dealerships. He also sits on the board of directors of UTI. No conflict there, huh? No doubt other board members also have a vested interest.
Instructors tell the naive they can make a 100 grand a year wrenching. The question that should be asked of instructors is why are you working for a pittance teaching us when you as a knowledgeable expert (flip a coin) could be making a 100 grand? Or 200?
A 190 is great compression and does not show a problem assuming the engine is running fine. However, that leads back to how was water intrusion determined and what DTCs were set?
Maybe removing a kick panel or pulling up the carpet inside the car a bit might reveal some evidence of water intrusion?
If this was a flood job it’s unlikely that any dealer is going to go that far in removing evidence.
OK, I’m just back to square one on the whole thing. What exactly is the problem except a check engine light with the car running just fine? So the mechanic didn’t or couldn’t diagnose the check engine light and to get out of it just said it needed a new engine? I’m just not sure what the problem is at this point. Maybe I missed some comments.
It’s stated that compression is 190 on all cylinders. I would think that if a connecting rod was bent this would mean the compression on that cylinder would be a shade lower unless the bend is miniscule. If it were this slight then I have to wonder how it was determined.
Seems like something is not quite adding up.If all cylinders have 190 and the engine idles and runs smooth I have to (maybe) start questioning a diagnosis.
If the car were mine I’d loosen some carpet and remove a kick panel to see if there are signs of flooding. If there are no signs of water underneath the carpet then how does water get into the engine?
I remember a few times I was performing a compression test and the numbers were either 0psi or so low that I had a hard time believing the accuracy of the readings
So I quickly used another gauge and came up with much higher readings
Then I put in a new schrader valve in the 1st gauge, and it also now produced the same readings as the 2nd gauge
Took but a few minutes
And so I’d ruled out low compression and moved onto other possibilities and different tests
There’s a reason why a good compression tester kit comes with a bag of spare schrader valves
I seem to remember it was also one of the most expensive systems to repair. When those fuel distributors developed problems, you had to pay through the nose
Then it’s not possible for the estimator to perform his “top dead center” measurement
I would add something else . . . if the car is still at the dealership, get it out of there on Monday. Also let it be known they haven’t heard the last of you
All I know for certain is this . . . I wouldn’t want to keep driving that car. Because if anything happens that’s in any way related to the engine, the dealer is going to use that lame “bent rod due to water intrusion” excuse to weasel their way out of doing right by you.
And then what was the point of paying good money for the CPO in the first place?
The zone rep has some power, and I’m not sure if he’s capable of thinking outside of the box. The way to look at it . . . in my opinion . . . is like this. The customer paid good money for a CPO car, and the engine is apparently physically damaged, through no fault of their own. Quite possibly this car should have never been CPO in the first place. How can we do right by him, knowing that corporate will never authorize an engine replacement/repair?"
Seems to me the right thing to do is get them to buy the car back at THEIR loss, not yours.
In any case, please let us know if the letter writing eventually yields favorable results, should you choose to go down that route
I find it extremely unsatisfactory that the dealer and the zone rep are firm in their statement that the rod(s) are bent, yet will provide no evidence. If they didn’t disassemble the engine, then the only possible way is by using a bore-scope. You would have to remove each and every spark plug and bring each piston up to top dead center, then take and save pictures. If so, there must be a pdf on somebody’s laptop. And if they didn’t even do that, then their evidence is suspect . . .
The zone rep has a lot more latitude than you think, and could certainly authorize repair/replacement of the engine. The zone rep could compel the selling dealer to pay some or all of the cost. Based solely on the length of ownership, and odometer mileage, it can be established that any engine damage must have occurred before the SUV was sold as CPO.
Naming the selling dealer, the zone rep himself, and Toyota Motor U.S. as co-defendants might get some results. The legal theory would go something like this: Either the vehicle had pre-existing damage which made it unfit for its intended purpose, and unable to meet the quality standards which Toyota requires CPO vehicles to meet (and was thus misrepresented by the selling dealer), or the zone rep and manufacturer are colluding to deny coverage for a warranty defect based on a phony diagnosis.
Discussing the problem with the sales manager is usually sufficient in getting results on a bad purchace. Is the sales manager or general manager aware of the stituation?
A “zone rep” is not going to make a decision on who pays for the repair, this is between the dealer and the vehicles owner.
BTW, the piston height can be measured through the spark plug hole.
Estimator said, “We actually measured by putting it top dead center and seeing the distance between the cylinder head or the piston face and the the top of the valve cover… And it did show just a little bit lower which could indicate a bent rod but that’s not a super scientific way to measure it. We would have to actually get into the engine to verify that the rod is bent.”
Still, would compression be at 190 with a bent rod?
I would think any measurable change in TDC piston location would have a significant effect on compression. Folks put in slightly thicker or thinner head gaskets to modify the compression ratio.
