I like innovative ideas and if I had money to burn, I might just go out and buy a Volt. I was fascinated by the Corvair when it was introduced in 1960. I bought one when I was going back to graduate school. Ralph Nader had just published “Unsafe at Any Speed” and knocked the resale value out from under the Corvair, so I was able to buy a much newer Corvair than what I would have been able to purchase in another make. I bought $15 camber compensator which was a transverse spring that limited the degree to which the swing axles would allow the wheels to tuck under the car. With this improvement, the Corvair handled very well. When I was in elementary school back in 1949, Nash introduced its AirFlyte design. While most people seemed to think these cars were ugly, I found them quite appealing. Years later, I learned that these cars were designed in a wind tunnel and had the lowest coefficient of drag of any car produced in the United States. The Nash AirFlyte 600, so named because it could travel 600 miles on a 20 gallon tank of gas also held 6 people. Not many 6 passenger cars today do that well. Some of the concepts of streamlining introduced in the Nash AirFlyte are used in cars today.
Ralph Nader not only did not ever produce anything of value, most of his accusations turned out to be false.
Where did you get that from “Fox News”??? Ralph Nadar’s accusations were far from inaccurate. I know big business HATES him. He’s a eccentric, but he’s made some extremely accurate accusations from the Auto industry to the insurance industry and the Medical industry.
I have a great deal of respect for Lee Iococca. But the mini-van was NOT Lee’s invention. He did however make sure it was one of the first vehicles he produced when he took over Chryco. The idea for the Mini-van was proposed to Ford when Lee was President of Ford. But the board turned it down. When Lee took over Chryco he brought over several key people from Ford including Hal Sperlich who was the true father of the Mini-van. The idea behind the Mini-Van was to build a “Garagable Family Van”. Most vans at the time could NOT fit in a home garage.
During the 80’s and early 90’s Chryco was the leader in innovation. First fwd mid-size vehicle, First Mini-van. They were inventing vehicles people wanted. Too bad their quality was pitiful.
What these history revisionists forget is that Nader had lots of support in his assertions on car safety. Among them, GM executive John DeLorean and guess who ? Lee Iococca himself, one of the co subjects of this Sub topic debate.
Revisionists will have to make more salient points with people who can Google. GM always thinks with it’s pocketbook and ultimately supported car safety regulations too. Saving lives and advertising it makes good publicity.
True Story. Speaking Of Minivans, Innovations, Chrysler, Etcetera . . .
. . . Vans had hinged side doors. Picture the VW vans through 1967. Minivans were in the works at about this time, although not introduced, yet. I was working at a VW dealer in this era and it was near Chrysler headquarters. VW’s 68 van introduced the sliding cargo door (I’m not sure that they were first). I remember that we had guys coming in from Chrysler frequently and ordering and buying the VW bus sliding door parts hardware.
I think Chrysler may have been the first domestic van with sliding doors. To me, large sliding doors make the minivan. I can’t imagine them with hinged cargo/passenger doors.
CSA
“Where did you get that from “Fox News”???”
No, just for the record, I don’t do cable. I should have written that his major accusations against the Corvair were proven false. I got that from a cat magazine many years ago. He cited a specific accident where the axle folded under while making a corner. I wish I had that reference but one thing I recall from it was that the axle folded under after the accident, it wasn’t the cause of the accident.
The theory of the axle folding under in a hard corner was more theory that reality. A lot of things can happen in theory, but they don’t happen in reality.
At the time of Nader’s book, there was already a growing discussion on auto safety. As I said earlier, safety was a hard sell. If you lived through the time, you will remember that the Vietnam War was in the headlines almost everyday. I do not want to get in a discussion about this war or minimize the sacrifice of our young soldiers, sailors and Marines, but in the course of the war, about 50,000 made the ultimate sacrifice. During the same time period, over 500,000 lost their lives on our highways and it hardly made a stir.
The reason Nader’s book got so much press was that he accused GM of sending private investigators out to find dirt on him. I believe that his accusations ultimately proved to be true. I think the safety issues would have come about anyway, without his book, but he may have moved up the timetable a little, but that came at a cost.
The cost was innovation. For all their faults, the early 60’s was a period of innovation in the industry. In addition to the rear engined Corvair, there was the rear transaxle Tempest, all Aluminum v-8 of the Oldsmobile, the Buick v-6 and the GTO, Mustang, etc.
“Unsafe at any Speed” cause the automakers to stick to proven and conservative designs. It took legislation to get the carmakers to begin to put safety devices in cars and trucks. Even then there was an outcry from the public because they had to pay for something that they would probably never use.
Eventually safety begin to sell, and when it did, the manufacturers began to design in safety and improve the safety devices that were mandated. There have been some tragic lessons learned along the way, for example, airbags that were dangerous for children, but if we didn’t have the airbags in the first place, the automakers would not have known how to make them safer.
I should have written that his major accusations against the Corvair were proven false.
Not according to ex GM executive John Delorean.
If you lived through the time, you will remember that the Vietnam War was in the headlines almost everyday.
We didn’t get much news about the US in Vietnam.
The reason Nader’s book got so much press was that he accused GM of sending private investigators out to find dirt on him. I believe that his accusations ultimately proved to be true.
They were true and he won a nice settlement from GM.
I do agree Nadar may take things too far…and may have on occasion stretched the truth…but all-in-all…he is a true consumer advocate. He’s done more as a consumer advocate then anyone else in US history.
“We didn’t get much news about the US in Vietnam.”
No “Stars and Stripes”?
“He’s done more as a consumer advocate then anyone else in US history.”
He’s gotten more press, but I don’t agree with you that he has done more. He has done more of what as a consumer advocate? He has brought the cause of consumer advocacy to more people as a result of the press he has gotten, but for consumers, there have been a lot of people behind the scenes that have done a lot of work on behalf of the consumer and will never get credit for it.
Consumers Union has done a lot for consumers. They do more than just criticize, they actually assist manufacturers in the design process for their products. Vehicle manufacturers know the power of CU and bring their prototypes to them for testing and evaluation.
BTW, how do you bold your quotes?
keith, we haven’t yet been able to turn on the editing function to allow people to format their responses at the click of a button, but for now you can bold your text by using the tags like this: the text you want bolded and substituting < > for [ ].
Further, you can consult a post made by another user: http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/comment/2872533#Comment_2872533
“A better comparison would be the Nissan Leaf, which is also a fully electric vehicle. For people compelled to use AC or heat, the range will be less than 50 miles. For commutes of 20 miles one way or less, it will make sense. But many people live much farther from work and this will limit the appeal.”
I rarely feel the need to jump in, but this is just wrong - under no realistic circumstance will the Leaf get less than 50 miles of range. While the EPA found that the Leaf got 100 miles on its (admittedly not-very-representative-of-real-life) LA4 cycle, Nissan also released numbers for best- and worst-case scenarios which range from 138 miles down to only 62.
In order to get to a 50 mile range, you’d have to assume a worst-case scenario (winter, urban, stop-and-go traffic jam when it’s 14 degrees Fahrenheit) at the end of the battery’s 8 year/100,000 warranty (at which point it has ~80% of its original capacity.) To put this in perspective, I know I wouldn’t want to be in an 8-year old gas car under the same circumstances.
cdaquila, thanks
keith
Is it worth the money? People have oodles of money and spend it on whatever.
A Bubba truck that is jacked up, lifted,huge wheels and bling bling rims along with a nitrous system cost more than 40k.
There are millions of milllionares. The Volt will be sold over invoice for a long time, unfortunately.
“Most vans at the time could NOT fit in a home garage.”
Huh?
“Huh?”
Houses built in even the 60s had small garages. A full size van might not fit in because it was too wide. And any extended length vans would not fit and still get the door closed.
“A full size van might not fit in because it was too wide. And any extended length vans would not fit and still get the door closed.”
Again, huh? So no Cadillacs or station wagons in the garage?
“Houses built in even the 60s had small garages.”
I’ve never lived in a house that new. Why did they start making garages smaller?
No “Stars and Stripes”?
Stars and Stripes was NOT a very big paper…so a LOT of news was left out…it basically just printed the hi-lights.
Consumers Union has done a lot for consumers.
Consumers Unions didn’t come about until YEARS after Nader.
Again, huh? So no Cadillacs or station wagons in the garage?
Not so much the length or width…but the height. You’d be hard pressed to find a garage 7’ high with a garage door opening of 6’.
Consumers Unions didn’t come about until YEARS after Nader.
Consumers Reports has been published by Consumers Union since 1936.
Now, about vans, I had a neighbor who had a 70’s van, don’t remember which one, but it was too tall to go through the garage door. It was not a 4wd nor was it jacked up, it was simply about 4" too tall. Since he had a single garage door, it looked like it would have fit width wise and length wise, but it would have been tight, but he didn’t get to find out. His house was built in 77, standard tract home.
Consumers Reports has been published by Consumers Union since 1936.
May have been published…but it sure wasn’t popular…let alone ALL area’s of the country.
“Why did they start making garages smaller?”
Post WWII suburban low cost wood frame housing vs a converted old school out-building that may have once been where the housekeeper lived?