Not worth it in my opinion and with any novelty car there will be a waiting list of people who want to be the first to jump onboard no matter what it is.
Over the years a fair number of people jumped on Yugos when they first hit the market followed by (every few years) others jumping on and paying way over list for Mazda Miatas, PT Cruisers, New Beetles, and Challengers just to name a few.
Careful. I was told in another thread that I was displaying my ignorance when it sounded like I was suggesting that Miatas might not be all that.
Yugos were good for what they were and they didn’t pretend to be anything other than what they were.
I completely agree with “docnick” in his comment about the Volt being a propaganda machine as much as anything else. Where I have a problem is that they are not really serious about building an EV for the masses. 40 miles per charge is a joke! After which, you are left with a car that gets fewer mpg then a Corolla. People who can do math, won’t buy them. EVs are not profitable and it seems apparent to me that only Nissan who is struggling to legitimately find a name for itself in this market is the only company offering one.
Toyota too with their commitment to parallell hybrids and the ICE Is interested in selling cars for a profit, not selling cars that benefit the masses.
They refuse to get into the all EV game and have farmed out their efforts to Teslar. The money isn’t there for auto manufacturers and the Volt (as well as tha ev1) is a perfect example how they have to be lead, kicking and screaming in that direction. When the incentives aren’t there, it’s back to the money makers. Big SUVs that need regular service and gobble up gas. You and I obliged and willing buy them as mall call cars till gas prices dictate otherwise.
With as much money spent on their propaganda machine, they have been telling us for years what we should be driving, not the other way around. If they were allowed, they sell cars with headliners made of asbestos and rotting tail pipes spewing un altered exhaust. The Volt only makes sense for GM if it makes money. For now it only makes money on the backs of the tax payer.
1st- the Volt is a real car. It will sell at $40K so therefore it is worth $40K. If the price is to too high after the initial demand falls off, and normal buyers have to be wooed to purchase a Volt GM can adjust the price if they need to. That’s called incentives.
I won’t pay $40K for a Volt. But, if I lived in the suburbs and commuted 30 to 50 miles a day I just might run the numbers and consider buying one. As a commuter car it might burn virtually no gas over the course of the work week for more than 50% of the daily commuters. That is a huge market, so there will be buyers.
If I was a daily commuter I’d also consider the Nissan Leaf. Burning -0- gallons of gas a week adds up to a bunch of money to help make that monthly car payment less difficult on the household budget.
Yes, these cars will sell. If they sell in large numbers they will have a significant impact on demand for gas too. If 20% of daily commuters adopt these cars in 5 years that will change the make up of the the “fleet” of cars on our highways daily. Those kinds of numbers will put a big dent in the demand for gas, then crude, and might just finally start to reduce our dependence on “oil”.
GM Is Increasing Volt Production Earlier Than Origianlly Planned To Try And Catch Up With Demand !
Even at $40,000 the Volt is proving to be a very popular model. However, GM’s CEO is asking the Volt team to find ways to shave the price by 25%. Couple that with the Fed’s Tax Credit or the Rebate that Obama is trying to get and the sales will explode even more.
I don’t particuarly care for conventional hybrids, but I could be interested in a Volt. Don’t judge the car too early. The prices will come down, the battery technology and range will improve and they will only get better than they already are.
I’m glad that GM has gone a different route besides the conventional hybrids they offer. I’d never by a conventional hybrid and If I’m ever going to consider an EV then I need an ICE back-up range extender. There’s just way too much wide open real estate where we drive.
Don’t judge the Volt too soon. It’s only going to get better and it’s apparently going to be happening at an accelerated pace and these babies are made right here in the United States by American workers.
Get those coal fired power plants cranking, EVs are on the way !
CSA
To Try And Meet Strong Demand, GM Is Planning To Build 1,000 More Volts Than Planned In 2011 And 15,000 Additional Units In 2012.
CSA
Ok, perhaps GM is using the Volt as a propoganda car. What’s bad about that? The Corvette is a propoganda car, not much profit but lots of positive image for GM. Same with the Viper.
I don’t think the Volt will go the way of the Edsel, but it might.
Will the Volt put your SUV, pickup, or motorhome at risk? No, these vehicles will be produced as long as there is a market for them. In fact, less cars buring less gas means more and less expensive fuels for the big vehicles, rural vehicles, and recreational vehicles that folks want.
The Volt doesn’t threaten anything, yet it seems to get a some folks blood boiling as if it will ruin their lives. It is different, it is a game changer, and it doesn’t depend on traditional gas for running routine daily errands and commuting. In the early days of the automobile the “horse” industry was threatened. Many resisted cars as evil, but practical considerations moved us out of horse and buggy and into motorized transportation. Someday most vehicles will not rely on oil and gas to move. But we will have big electric trucks by then, big electric farm tractors, etc. All that stuff will still be available, it is just that you might plug it in rather than fill it with gas or diesel.
I’m not going to buy a Volt. But, the Ski Nautic folks have an electric ski boat that looks pretty good in development. Remember folks electric motors have tons of torque. Big stuff can be moved by an electric motor no problem, it’s all about the batteries and more efficent electric motors. Computers developed fast and every few years chip capacity has doubled. The same kind of thing will happen with electric vehicles, progress toward more miles per charge, smaller components, and more applications will happen fast.
The oil titans tryed to keep the horse in the barn as long as they could, but the horse is out now and the only thing threatened is the companies that have made huge profits on oil for the last 100 years.
“if they own it and there are problems, they just replace it with an updated version under the existing lease”
And maybe, at the end of the leases they take the cars back and send most of them to the crusher, like they did with the EV-1.
It is clear that the answer to this question is YES. Obviously some people think it is worth the money or they wouldn’t be buying them.
Is it worth it to me, NO. And clearly I am in the majority here.
Another question might be, it the Volt a worthy vehicle. It was pointed out by some posters how somethings that are common in the marketplace today had very high initial costs. Fortunately, there were early adopters for those products that provided capital to improve those products and bring down the costs.
I am not convinced that the hybrid is the final answer to the fuel crisis, but if it is, or at least a significant part of the answer, then these early adopters will provide the demand and some of the capital to improve the product and cut its costs.
If in ten years or so, hybrid vehicles become the most economical vehicle configuration in most classes of vehicles, then the Volt will prove to be a worthy vehicle and these early adopters, fools that we may think they are now, will have done us a great service by their forethought and vision.
Hybrid’s and fully electric vehicles will be a significant part of gas mileage solution for some time to come. Fuel cells are just now getting underway and there still isn’t a cheap way to produce hydrogen. As gas prices climb (which seems like they will for years ) people will be looking for ways to cut back on the money they spend on gas. Gas prices go high enough (which it looks like it will sooner then later) then hybrids or full-electric vehicles actually become viable. For now they really don’t make much sense unless you have the right commute and drive over 20k miles a year. But as gas prices rise the mileage needed per year may to break even may drop to 10k/year.
For me with my commute hybrids don’t make sense. But in 4-5 years that may change.
Backstage, it’s the Lithium battery that is being field-tested…That, and they need to get the manufacturing cost down for that critical part…The development of this type of battery is by no means complete…
“And maybe, at the end of the leases they take the cars back and send most of them to the crusher, like they did with the EV-1.”
There’s a big difference. The EV-1 had a very limited range because of battery technology at the time. The Volt will use batteries with significantly improved charge density and also include a small gas engine to supplement the battery. A better comparison would ge the Nissan Leaf, which is also a fully electric vehicle. For peopele compelled to use AC or heat, the range will be less than 50 miles. For commutes of 20 miles one way or less, it will make sense. But many people live much farther from work and this will limit the appeal.
“The EV-1 had a very limited range because of battery technology at the time.”
?? I don’t think that’s correct at all. IIRC the EV1’s range was way better than the range of the Volt - and more than suitable for the average U.S. driver’s daily needs. I am open to correction on that point.
Unless the range comparison is about the on-board generator in the Volt?
Anyway, I recall the EV1 range being anywhere from 60-120 miles (depending on which generation it was). Most people don’t drive farther than that on any given day. You don’t buy it for long trips - but as a daily runner/commuter they are more than adequate for most. They blew away the Leaf’s pitiful range.
You numbers are correct, but I still consider that a limited range. I also suspect that the EV1 got that excellent range on a mild day. Using the heater or AC would reduce mileage dramatically. GM had choices to make and they decided to provide a car with a range like other compact cars, instead of a limited range like the Leaf. People can drive the Volt to work and maybe not buy gas for a month or more. Then they can drive several hundred miles if they choose without stopping every couple of hours for a recharge. GM chose a different type of consumer than you would. They are taking the chances, and they get to choose. Nissan seems to think more along your lines, though.
Guess you have to look at what the ev1 was intended for. It was to be use an in city or from the the suburb commuter and never a trip car. It excelled in that roll and there was a demand from all who tesT drove them. NIMH though less energy dense then lithium batteries are longer lasting, cold weather efficient, recycleable, less expensive and a perfect match for a third commuter vehicle. But sadly, they are NO LONGER available in the size required. That is the unvarnished truth, do the research yourself !
With maintenance that was little more than air pressure and washer fluid fill ups, the ev1 would not sustain the long term profitability for auto companies. If left to our own devices, we the public would have come up with solutions that include a world of ev1 type vehicles and improved public transportation, good enough for the vast majority of car owners.
And no, it does not have to include expensive lithium technology or hydrogen powered electric cars…both are bogus side roads to increase profitability backed by the corporate controlled federal government. GM (among others) does have choices to make which are always slanted on the side of immediate corporate profit over the long term public interest.
+1 @dagosa (or in the old star system *****)
Boy, I Guess I Was Too Busy Debating The Merits Of The Volt To Realize What’s Really Going On Here Is A Vast, Big Business / Corporate Controlled, Government Conspiracy !
CSA
There’s a big difference between positing a “conspiracy” and pointing out that there are definite power interests that are able to have a large effect on how things go.
Reducing power arguments to “conspiracy” theories is a straw man strategy that does no one any good.
“. . . there are definite power interests that are able to have a large effect on how things go.”
Agree. That’s how it always has been and always will be. That’s life. It’s what keeps things interesting. Fortunately the consumer can decide what to buy and what not to buy (unless business or the Feds outlaw it or manipulate the market). Think light bulbs. Think retail gasoline.
CSA
CSA, the notion that consumers are really the ones in charge is a serious oversimplification and completely bypasses the very relevant things that ought tobe taken into account regarding the power of producers
…and the producers are way better at manipulating markets than the Feds.