There’s a huge difference (in my opinion) between someone just handing over a title to a buyer as opposed to someone handing over a title on a car which the seller does not own and which allegedly belongs to a 3rd party brother who is not around.
What is also not stated is whether this seller has a title allegedly signed by the MIA brother or whether the seller has forged the MIA brother’s name.
What I would do is tell that seller to cough up the brother’s phone number and to come to the DMV with me to change the title over. Once that is done the money changes hands.
If the seller balks then I’d say they’re nervous about something; curbstoning at the least or vehicle theft at the worst.
All of these things vary from state to state. My state really frowns on cars being sold through a third party. The state wants its sales tax from each sale whether the car is registered each time or not, unless it is sold by a licensed dealer. You also need a bill of sale signed by the registered owner, his executor, or guardian to establish the sales tax.
I have purchased about 35 vehicles during the last 40 years and I believe half of them were from people who were not listed on the title. My stepfather sold my car for me and I have sold cars for others.
In my state a notary is not required and the DMV has no handwriting analysis on staff. If all the paperwork is presented the process nothing more than routine.
In the mid 90’s I bought a car for the purpose of spare parts for $250. The DMV wanted $256 sales tax based on the depreciated value of the car for title transfer, I declined the transaction. Ten years later the primary car was gone so I decided to sell the parts car. I went to the DMV and explained that I held this title for ten years in the sellers name but now want to sell the car and want to transfer the title into my name. The clerk told me transfer was unnecessary, I could sell the vehicle with the existing title and a bill of sale (sales tax is no longer collected on private sales). What is labeled as “curbstoning” in the east is a third party sale here. Car dealers hold title in the former owners name, there is no transfer made until a sale is made.
I have transfered ownership and title of cars to myself to sell them when there was some question regarding clear title. Doing so was time consuming and cost about $20 as I recall so as a rule I bought cars and had the owner sign the title leaving the buyer’s name and date blank and the buyer was virtually buying from the original owner. It’s likely that there is some significant difference in title laws from state to state though.
Rod Knox: That sounds very similar to my state. I suspect from other comments that the additional requirements are most likely driven by collection of taxes and fees. With no sales tax here a title transfer is much simpler. The OP should also be concerned about any lien(s) such as personal loan, repairs, or accessories such as wheels and tires that are unpaid and the “Brother” “forgot” to disclose. Personally I would walk away from this one.
As OK4450 And I Have Both Explained, Buyer And Seller Transacting This Purchase At The DMV Will Make The Deal “Go” Or “No-Go”, “Put-Up Or Shut-Up”, “Separate The Wheat From The Chaff”…
My state DMV office cuts right to the chase and doesn’t accept improper documents, uncrossed "T"s Or undotted "i"s, stories or B.S. The last car I bough in September had some red flags, but the car was so nice and I negotiated way down (I really checked that baby over, but good) I pressed on with it to see where it would go.
I responded to a Craig’s List ad (OMG not Craig’s List!), fairly locally (38 miles, not far here in rural miles). The seller had an out of state title, some stories about getting a divorce, losing his job and house in an adjacent state, and moving with his girlfriend, into his son’s house locally, guy would only take cash, etcetera.
I got the cash, but insisted the guy go to the DMV. First thing the DMV did after checking for liens was to contact the state’s data base that the car was titled in and check it for any flaws, fraud, theft, etcetera. Everything checked out and the DMV made short work of it. The seller was kind of a jerk, but the car has been awesome!
Sometimes red flags are red herrings, sometimes not. Sometimes stories are B.S. and sometimes not. CYA. If you can’t then Run! CSA
Notaries are fine but you have to realize first that the only thing they do is verify that the person’s signature is correct. You can become a notary by applying and filling out the filing fee, then paying the $50 fee to stay registered. Of course you have to buy your own stamp. I had several on staff just to make things easier on us if we ever needed one. They are a little better than the general public but not as good as a CPA or banker in verifying the signature. The best to me is going right to the DMV. Once they clear it, you can get your title regardless of any previous errors or irregularities.
As long as the title is signed by the owner, it’s probably possible to effect a sale. But how to do it, without access to the actual owner, it probably varies state by state. But practically speaking, to insure the car ends up legally belonging to the OP, the OP needs some written assurance the person who signed the title is actually the owner; i.e. it’s not a counterfeit signature.
Some years ago a good friend of mine (mechanic, car club official, and custom car builder) bought another classic project car; as if needed another one.
Before he could get started on it a friend of his wanted the car and agreed to wait on the title.
There was a delay on my friend ever getting the proper title signed off on and the guy who bought the car from him turned my friend over to the law.
Bottom line; my friend was arrested twice (cuffed at work both times) over a 2 month period and had to pay a 500 dollar fine over what was apparently an insignificant title issue between friends.
I know this. If I buy a car I’m going to make damned sure the paper is clean and acceptable to the DMV before anyone gets a dime.
There’s a lot of car/title fraud going on and my feeling is better safe than sorry.
Four out of Five of my last purchased cars have been new. No title worries. I have never had a title problem whether purchasing from a dealer or private seller. I purchased 4 used cars from long time established used car dealers. The titles were signed by the last owner and theoretically could have been traded by several dealers. No problems. I have so far owned 40 cars, 3 vintage pickups, and 3 motorcycles. I now own 1 car. Obviously I have bought and sold quite a few plus given a couple away. Never a hitch with title transfers.
There are some states in the south that have 'innocent buyer " laws that prevent you from recovering you car if someone steals your car and sells it to them, if they didn’t know it was stolen.
I guess you would have to steal it back from them and hope you made the state line.
Like I have said before, its also protection for the seller to go to the DMV together. Three times now I have been burned by people not transferring the title and had to force the title change at the DMV. One time it took me a day to clear tickets that the car had gotten and prove I had sold the car. Luckily I always make a final copy of the title before I give it to them so I have all the information.
Bing is correct. If the seller of that car does not want to go to the DMV then odds are they’re trying to pull something.
Just some FYI, but over the years here in OK there has been at least 2, and maybe 3, breakins at tag agencies that I’m aware of.
In one case a 1000 blank titles were stolen and in another case about 500 blank titles along with drivers license blanks and the equipment to produce them was stolen.
I’ve often wondered how many of those blank titles ended up in other states and were doctored to register a stolen car or to sell or trade one for whatever reason…
I’ve never purshased a car from anyone but the actual owner.
I’ve never sold a car, save for once, without going WITH the purchaser and watching the title transfer completed in front of me. They don’t get the keys unless I see it happen. That “once” was years ago. It was the second car I ever owned, and it caused me innumerable legal headaches because the idiot who I sold it to mever transferred the title as he swore he would. He then ran up a string of parking tickets, and it was hell to prove it wasn’t me who got them. I eventually found out he didn’t have a valid license, and used a false name on the paperwork. He also drove off without paying for gas a couple of times. Guess who they came to talk to about that? The only reason I was able to escape this is because the guy was stupid enough to get (another) dui in the car. Last I saw it, it was in the impound lot, destined for the scrap yard. Good riddence.
In this state, since the license plates stay with the car, it’s common practice for chronic DUI and legal offenders to buy a junker with newer tabs, promise to change the title, and then never do. After the tabs expire, they sell the car to someone else (“I never did get around to changing the title over. You can do it.”) or just abandon the car on a side street. Then, when the car is towed and impounded, guess who’s stuck with THAT bill? Why, the last owner of record, of course. And they don’t care about your sob story. They want their money.
My wife, who works for the state DMV has all sorts of horror stories of people who’ve sold cars to other who swear on the bible “I’ll change the title over, trust me.” and then never do.
Agree. The cousin of a lady I worked with desperately needed a car, so I sold her my Riviera for $50. New wax job, cleaned up, all leather, full tank of gas, and new $75 battery. I said if she didn’t like it I’d give her money back. All I asked is that transfer the title immediately. Never did and I had to force the title change. Turned out well though. I took her money from one tribe and invested it at the casino to another tribe and ended up making $500 on the deal.
A former boss of mine sold a car, and the buyer never bothered to transfer the title
Some time later, he was contacted that the car was in an impound lot. They called him, because he was the last owner on record
He asked how much it was to get the car out of impound. It sounded reasonable, so he headed over there and quickly inspected the car.
Before he headed over there, he managed to find a spare key, which he had forgotten to give to the loser buyer . . . the guy that never retitled the car
He paid the fee and drove off with the car :naughty:
He then managed to get some kind of a duplicate title in his name, and all was well
About 20 or so years ago I bought a 10 year old plain jane Ford and was handed the title which had a name that was not the name of the guy selling the car to me. I knew the guy well as he is a standup guy who runs a wrecker service and salvage. The car was cheap, so…
With some digging I found that car had a lien on it at a bank about 40 miles away and the guy whose name was on the title was nowhere to be found. For some reason never known to me the lien had never been placed on the title itself and which is customary in OK. It may have had something to do with a tote the note car lot although that’s only a guess on my part.
The bank wanted the car back, the bank refused to reimburse me for what I paid for the car, I wasn’t just handing the car back over to the bank for free, the former debtor was nowhere to be found, and it turned into a Mexican standoff.
I finally went through the aggravating Title 42 process and got a clear title but it’s not a process I wanted to deal with.
Around that same time frame I was in the middle of a car repair for a small used car dealer. The dealer suddenly died of a heart attack and his assistant called to find out if I had any of his sleds in my shop. Rather than finish the repair or pay for what I’d done up to that point they just handed me the title and called it square.
There was a lien from the bank on all assets on the floor plan and this led to a pretty volatile dispute, The bank wanted me to finish the repair and just hand the car back free of charge.
Har de har har…Insanity runs in the banking business also.
There’s a lot of reasons why a car sale between A and B should never include a C…
I once bought a car with a lien on the title. In 1988 a coworker offered to sell the engine from his car to me. I ask why he didn’t want to sell the car with engine, he said there was a lien on the title at a California used car dealer. We agreed on a price and traveler to the dealer, I paid off the lien and received the title. I believe the total was just over $400.
I still have the car, it needs paint and interior work.
