Quote from MINH: That’s NOT the way it works. The quality control has to be applied in the design and manufacturing of the product. If you’re relying on inspections to control quality it’s too late. Unquote
FALSE! If Toyota has no incoming part inspection then they deserve all of the trouble that they have now and can anticipate more in the future.
I have had exposure to manufacturing debacles such as this at least four times but not as extensive as Toyota’s. In these instances and it seems for Toyota also, the problem could be traced to a deficiency in design for three of the four and inadequate testing of production parts in all three. Inadequate testing is not necessarily due to lack of effort but instead, lack of knowing that it must be done.
“The car models involved all use a “fly-by-wire” throttle control system. There is NO DIRECT THROTTLE LINKAGE on these cars.”
Back in the carburetor days when there was in fact direct throttle linkage, the only thing closing the throttle plates and pulling the gas pedal back up was often a coil spring on the throttle linkage that was sometimes given to fatigue and breakage. To make matters worse, the throttle plate design was sometimes such that air being sucked through the carburetor bores would pull the throttle plates to full open when the spring broke. Not that it happened that often, but knowing what to do with a throttle stuck full open was a standard part of learning how to drive.
Nowadays, we are so pampered by automation, modern conveniences, and cradle to grave nannyism that we seem to forget that things do go wrong. Having an accelerator pedal assembly that sometimes sticks is a serious matter, and one that needs to be fixed, but who knows what other equally dangerous mechanical problems might be lurking in any number of cars that just haven’t been discovered yet. A car is made up of mechanical devices, and mechanical devices sometimes fail no matter how carefully they are designed and manufactured. It is our duty as drivers to be prepared for such failures and to have the presence of mind to handle the situation when it arises. In a perfect world our cars would be perfect, but such perfection exists only in the minds of those who dream of utopia.
It’s Toyota’s fault through and through. There is not one part installed on any car that has not been approved by some level of management and this problem goes back 5 years so you can bet the farm this has been discussed in the meeting room a long time ago.
Just like Ford refusing to re-engineer the TFI modules due to cost it’s also more than likely that Toyota had no intention of losing millions by re-engineering and slowing up the production line.
Throw them out there and pray to the gods that nothing happens. Just like in Ford’s case, oops.
As to whether Japanese versions are infallible that remains to be seen. Their bureacracy is different than ours and based on the track record of coverups (2 Toyota execs arrested for conspiracy to cover up a recall, Mitsubishi CEO for the same thing, etc.) it would not surprise me if something surfaced in the future.
As to whether Japanese versions are infallible that remains to be seen. Their bureacracy is different than ours and based on the track record of coverups
Has NOTHING do to with the their bureaucracy…Not talking about cars sold in Japan…but cars MANUFACTURERED in Japan and sold in the US. So far those cars are NOT experiencing the same problem.
It’s Toyota’s fault through and through. There is not one part installed on any car that has not been approved by some level of management and this problem goes back 5 years so you can bet the farm this has been discussed in the meeting room a long time ago.
Can’t agree more…and I don’t remember anyone saying any different.
FALSE! If Toyota has no incoming part inspection then they deserve all of the trouble that they have now and can anticipate more in the future.
I’m NOT saying you don’t inspect. What I’m saying is you don’t rely on inspecting as your quality control. You better start putting in quality control design and manufacturing methods or you’ll start failing LARGE amounts of parts during the inspections.
The bureaucracy does work differently in Japan and it’s entirely possible that in the future there could be a recall issued there for this problem.
It just seemed to me that from your earlier posts you were strongly insinuating that this problem is not Toyota’s fault and the blame should be placed at the feet of CTS, which is based in Indiana.
CTS is worldwide and the fact they have 2 manufacturing plants in the U.S. does not mean the parts in question were even manufactured domestically.
Exactly where those parts were made, I have no idea but it matters not. TMC is at fault.
There’s a history of whitewashing problems so it would not surprise me if this happened in regards to the floor mats/throttle control problems.
Honda and the CEL business, Mitsubishi and ball joints, Toyota and ball joints, and even a several years old story that is not applicable to the U.S., as pasted below are a sampling.
Toyota Motor Corp., Japan’s largest carmaker, said yesterday it filed a report to the country’s transport ministry on its recall policy following an investigation by police into whether employees at the company hid defects in Hilux sport-utility vehicles and delayed a recall.
The report provides details of the defective parts and the company’s decision-making process, according to the text of a speech by Executive Vice President Masatami Takimoto.
Toyota filed a recall to fix faulty relay rods used in the Hilux in October 2004. Five people were injured when a 21 year-old driver lost control of the steering of a Hilux Surf model and crashed into an oncoming car in August 2004, the transport ministry said.
Toyota said there were 11 cases of defects in 2004 when it filed the recall, while local police said there were 80.
The bureaucracy does work differently in Japan and it’s entirely possible that in the future there could be a recall issued there for this problem.
Yes…BUT the bureaucracy has NOTHING to do with cars SOLD in the US. It’s the NHTSA that’s forcing Toyota to make these recalls. And they can only make recalls on cars SOLD in the US. Since the Lexus ES-350 is made in Japan (and some Camry’s)…those vehicles are NOT experiencing the same problem. I’m sure the NHTSA has looked into those cars and if they were experiencing the same problem they’d be on the recall list. As of yet they are NOT on the recall list.
It just seemed to me that from your earlier posts you were strongly insinuating that this problem is not Toyota’s fault and the blame should be placed at the feet of CTS, which is based in Indiana.
If you read my posts on this and the two other threads…I specifically that ultimately Toyota is at fault. The remark I made about CTS was just pointing out that it was an American parts manufacturer that is the focus of the investigation…YES Toyota is responsible (as they should be)…but they didn’t make the part. And a report I heard on the radio during my morning drive…is the Pedal may NOT be the problem…They are now focusing on another electronic component of which I have no idea who the manufacturer is nor what country it’s made it. And no matter what company made it…it’s STILL TOYOTA’S responsibility.
No one is answering the question: What do I do if I have a Killer Toyota? If you check around you’ll see a history of people complaining of Toyotas that suddenly accelerate, which is NOT the same as a stuck accelerator. Understanding how to shift into neutral is great, but when your car suddenly accelerates toward a pedestrian, a house, or a utility pole, there may not be time for that. Not only that, but some of these cases involve strange electrical problems occurring as well. This sounds not only dangerous, but a matter of serious liability if you continue to operate the car knowing it could do this at any time. My mother has already called a lawyer and got nowhere fast (no pun intended). By now you guys should have heard that this is not about floor mats. So back to the original question… what are we supposed to do for transportation in the meantime?
Just to set the record straight; no Toyota model is being DISCONTINUED; they just stop manufacturing until the defective part is gets installed. No different from the company being on strike.
Actually, a stuck throttle can lead to unintended acceleration. The gas pedal is pressed and the car accelerates. When the desired speed is reached, the driver backs off a bit (a lot?) to drive at a steady speed. If the pedal is stuck, this may not be possible. The unintended acceleration an be quite a bit if the driver likes to floor it.
So, drive gently and stay attuned to the way the gas pedal works. And remember that very few people have died from this. You are hundreds, if not thousands, of times more likely to die on the road for any other reason than this.
Get real Docnick, they have known about this since 2004. They had insinuated it was the manufacturer’s fault without revealing that the part was being made to Toyota’s design and specifications.
Forget the cause. Forget the fix. Forget the recall. We aint in Kansas anymore. This guy’s question and comments just told you the game is now being moved to Lawsuit City. The dog ate my homework and every Toyota accident, every Toyota owner that wants out of the loan and every Toyota owner who sees a shot at making some bucks have just become a huge potential client base for all the lowlife litigation lawyers.
Take the ten best mechanics that respond on this site. Throw in Tom and Ray. Now add some of the top automobile engineers in the USA. On the opposing team, we have a top notch litigation law firm and their team of experts.
Anyone want to bet on the outcome? I’m not taking that bet. But there is one bet I would take. That would be that there are already a half dozen litigation law firms who have engineers and assorted experts studying this matter in the same detail as all the engineers at Toyota.
And yes their are thousands of owners who are rightfully concerned and want good fixes and answers to assure their safety. We will see how they do.
An unfortunate fact of life. Two years ago I installed a new high efficiency furnace in my house. Witin a month I get a letter from a litigation law firm that my furnace was a potential death trap and I could join a class action law suit to get as much as $300 or so from the manufacturer. My furnace has a 10 year warranty and works perfectly, but the lawsuit furnace in question unfortunately had the same model designation as mine. I’m appalled that the National Geographic actually carries this firm’s ads. That’s how they got my address.
In the US there is a lawyer for every 300+ citizens, while in Japan there is a lawyer for every 10,000 citizens. Draw your own conclusions.
As the OP, I visited my dealer with my wife on Friday. We had a 40 minute talk with the service manager, who was courteous and well spoken, and allayed our fears. Although some will disagree, I doubt this would be an issue with a new vehicle.
Great; as I read the morning paper, there is already an approved pedal replacement on the way to be at the dealers next week. I have no doubt Toyota will look after you and have your car fixed very soon.
Two years ago I installed a new high efficiency furnace in my house. Witin a month I get a letter from a litigation law firm that my furnace was a potential death trap and I could join a class action law suit to get as much as $300 or so from the manufacturer.
That happened to me some 13 years ago when my youngest was a baby… We had bought a car seat. The manufacturer had a problem and in some rare circumstances the latch would unlock and the seat would swivel on the handle which could dump the baby out of the car seat when you were carrying it. There was a big recall. The day after it was announced I called the manufacturer to get the replacement spring and clip. I must have called them 10 times and couldn’t get through. Then when I got home from work there was a special delivery package waiting for me…It contained the new springs and clip from the manufacturer. Seems I sent in my warranty card and was on file so they just sent the fix out to everyone they had on file.
Then 3 weeks later I get a letter from some law firm that was taking a class-action suit against the manufacturer. I threw the letter in the trash.
Stay loose! We have a ‘97 Tundra, we tow a 28’ gooseneck 3-horse trailer. Never had a problem in over 60,000 miles. Even with the problem (which we have never had), the vehicle DOES NOT accelerate uncontrollably, the gas pedal just stays where it is. It doesn’t “pop back up”. Just hook your right toe under it, pull it up, your car will slow like is was designed.
Mountains out of molehills here. Oh, and it wasn’t Toyota who made a consious, calculated decision that it was cheaper to pay off Pinto burn victims than to fix the cars, was it, Ford??