The belts are breaking because they’re simply being allowed to remain in place for far too long and for far too many miles.
It’s not a matter of the cars being Lemons; it’s just the way they’re designed.
Personally, I prefer a chain any day of the week but a belt is not necessarily a bad thing IF you stay on top of it and change it as required.
The real irritant for me is making some belt driven engines interference type, which means damage if the belt breaks.
I notice that we have been having quite a bit of “if you can’t say something I like to hear then don’t say anything” and the creators of this dialogue have something in common, gender.
The OP posts a very odd question and people start throwing out possible explainations and they get bent out of shape. Nobody proposed anything that was not a possibility based on the information provided, there was no ‘bashing’ going on.
My “gathering of data and making a conclusion” what just that,simply comming to a conclusion.
We never did hear how that Honda with the siezed cam came out, I guess we don’t deserve to know the end of the story. Just use us for what you will then cast us away.
“Can’t be bothered to learn if you car uses a timing belt or timing chain” well this decision on how to allocate your time will not be a problem, if you choose not to operate your vehicle.
Who’s fault is it that machinery requires maintiance and you need to understand that maintiance AND even if you pay for someone to take over this job you still need to know how to monitor the monitors.
My elderly neighbor has solved this problem, “how did she do it you ask”? she did it by being nice to me. I come over and look both he reciepts over and the car after it has been worked on, all she pays me is just being a good neighbor, problem solved.
I think the belt failed on both vehicles because it simply wasn’t replaced when it should have been. I doubt anyone sabotaged your vehicle… though with your attitude, I can see why you might suspect it.
I’m afraid I need to disagree with you. If you bought a car and can’t confirm for sure that the timing belt was changed, then it’s your fault if you don’t change it right away and it breaks.
We now know that you need to become more “car smart” and practice a rigorous maintenance schedule on any car you own from now on. You also may be better off buying NEW cars, rather than trusting whoever sells you a USED car. If a used car as not been religiously maintained, you end up with the broken pieces, sooner or later.
Cars consume their original cost in maintenance and repairs over their lifetime, that can be up to 30 years. So a $20,000 car needs $20,000 worth of maintenance, repairs and tires over those years. What actually happens, however, the person who buys a car new, runs it till it starts needing repairs while doing little or no maintenance. So YOU get left holding the bag shortly after you buy the machine.
The US deprtment of Commerce reports that the average car in the US neeeds $1200 per year in repairs and maintenance. My advice is that you set aside this amount ($100/month) and read your owner’s manual (the world’s least read Best Seller) from cover to cover, then set up a care schedule.
Finally, before buying any used car, have a qualified mechanic check it over and report what it needs if it is good enough to buy. I have helped countless people buy cars and they have turned out well. If you do buy another used car, be prepared to spend at least $400 or so in the first few months to catch up on “deferred” maintenance which the previous owner neglected to do.
If you follow the above isems, you will never have another “lemon”.
All motors have either a timing belt or a timing chain. If you buy older high mileage cars you need to check out a couple of things. Many cars (your Honda was one) have timing belts which are made to last only a certain number of years and miles and they need to be replaced as a part of regular maintenance. Often 90K miles or 8 years whichever comes first.
The motors with timing chains do not need the chains replaced as part of maintenance. The chains are made of metal and should last the life of the motor. Yet, sometimes they do fail in high mileage motors, such as one with about 200K miles on it.
When a timing belt or a timing chain breaks in some motors it stops the motor but doesn’t do significant damage. You put a new chain on it, time it properly and the motor is fine. Say $300 to get going again. This is a non-interference motor.
Other motors suffer major damage as soon as a belt breaks, pistons bang into valves and lots of stuff gets bent and broken. The only protection is to replace the belt on schedule. These breaks take multiple thousand of dollars to repair or require a whole different motor in the car. This is an interference motor.
So, the next old clunker you buy try to find out if it a motor with a timing chain or timing belt. If it is a timing belt ask the seller for PROOF of when it was last changed. Such proof could be a service receipt or a sticker somewhere in the motor compartment. If there is no proof assume the belt has not ever been changed and figure to have it done on schedule if you buy the car, about $700 for the job. It helps to know if you have an interference motor or not too, many Honda and Toyota motors are interference type motors.
Many owners sell their cars just about the time they need the major 90K service and don’t replace the belts. The next owner needs to change it or a failure is likely.
I’m sorry if the OP came away with hurt feelings, but the fact of the matter is that negligence–by both previous owners of these cars and by the OP herself–is the cause of the problems that she experienced.
As was already said, engines that are equipped with timing belts need to have these belts changed as a regular part of their maintenance. On most modern cars with timing belts, this is done at 105,000 miles or 8 years, whichever comes first. So, with cars that have over 150k miles on the odometer, anyone purchasing that car is taking a major chance by continuing to drive the car without investing the money to have the belt replaced.
There is certainly nothing wrong with being naive about car maintenance. However, all car owners need to be aware of what maintenance is necessary in order to keep the car running without incident, and someone who is not car-savvy has an even bigger need to become aware of necessary maintenance. This does not involve taking graduate-level courses and does not require engineering expertise. All it requires is the ability to open the glove compartment, taking out the mfr’s maintenance schedule (contained in either the Owner’s Manual or in a separate booklet with an appropriate title), and reading that maintenance schedule.
If no maintenance records exist, then the car owner has to assume that no maintenance has been done. That means that the responsible car owner will compare the car’s current odometer mileage to the most recent “big” maintenance list, and have everything on that list performed right after buying the car. For instance, if the car has 140k miles on the odometer, the 120k maintenance should be performed. However, it is also vital to backtrack a bit in order to see what other major maintenance jobs should have been done previous to that 120k maintenance. In this case, the OP would have seen timing belt replacement listed for anywhere from 90k miles to 105k miles.
Anyone can make a mistake when they purchase a car for the first time or whenever they venture into a new endeavor. However, it is important to learn from mistakes that are made the first time around. It just seems to me that after one disasterous timing belt experience, the OP would have taken some extra steps to avoid that type of situation with the next car. Her failure to learn from the first bad experience has been very costly, unfortunately.
Even though it is rather late in the game to begin learning about this topic, the OP can practice financial self-defense with her future cars (and with her wallet) by making sure that she has any potential car purchases vetted by a competent mechanic prior to purchase, and then by having the car maintained very well subsequent to purchase.
I would say something about one of the definitions of insanity being, “continuing to do the same thing, but expecting a different outcome”, but then the OP would accuse me of implying that she has emotional problems. I am certainly not implying any mental disability on her part, but if she continues to do the same thing (failing to educate herself about car maintenance and failing to replace vital components when due or overdue), then she might want to consider the implications and the consequences of that behavior.
If you don’t change your oil every weekend and shoot graphite into all locks, including the trunk and glove box at least monthly, some pompous stick in the mud on this board will slam you. Sorry, fact of life.
It sounds like you have bought a couple cars with high mileage whose previous owners didn’t replace the timing thingy whan they should have and you reaped the bad results.
Got that, retired mechanics? Previous owners, not her!!! Crack another beer and chill.
Trust me, ZW, I do lay most of the blame on previous owners of this woman’s cars.
However, I will repeat that she is not blameless if she failed to do her due diligence prior to purchase, and if she failed to update the maintenance of her cars right after purchase.
Avoiding a poorly-maintained vehicle is paramount, but if one buys a poorly-maintained car and then does nothing to help prevent imminent component failures that result from lax maintenance, the new car owner certainly does bear some of the blame for his/her subsequent car problems.
Anyone can make a mistake with his/her first car purchase. However, when the same mechanical problem crops up on that person’s next high odometer mileage used car, it indicates that nothing was learned from the first negative experience.
So, rather than try to teach the OP how to avoid this problem in the future, we should all just agree with her that she has had bad luck and there’s nothing she can do about it but hope for better luck in the future?
I Don’t Advocate Shooting Graphite Into Ignition Locks. Many Have Fine Electrical Sensors That Can Be Compromised ! Glove Box And Trunk Locks Are A dream Come True For All Graphite Fanciers, Just Don’t Wear White Clothes !
Looks like another Pleasant Valley Sunday coming up, fire up the barbie, time for an oil change or two ! Beer Me !
CSA
The Grand Am was phased out in 2005.
I concur people here are over zealous on blame.
Basically you got unlucky twice in two ways. 1) Buying a timing belt equipped car 2) Prior owners did not change the timing belt
Probably your next best approach:
I wish you best of luck in new life finding happiness and hopefully ride that does not turn into instant junk like the past two.
A good friend of mine in Texas claims that “luck is the residue of planning”. He’s been manufacturing luck most of his adult life and is quite successful at it!
1999 Grand Am four cylinder had a timing chain. It was a derivative of the old Quad Four and had the same problems. The timing chain tensioner was subject to failure if the engine began to sludge up due to lack of oil circulation. Lack of proper maintenance over the life of the vehicle is likely the cause of failure in this case, and this problem is not terribly uncommon. They do often give ample warning before failure in the form of noise.
The Accord was, as others said, probably long overdue for a timing belt/tensioner/water pump change. Unfortunately, many people don’t think of these things when they buy a used car. Many of these people have the attitude that, since it’s a Honda or Toyota, it will run forever with no repairs or maintenance needed. This can be a truly nasty wakeup call.
Sometimes the owner will sell it BECAUSE it needs the belt changed and they found out how much it cost to change it out. How many posts have there been that ask “My trusted mechanic says my 10 year old vehicle needs it’s belt changed, and if I don’t it could cause my engine to be destroyed. Is it necessary to change it out, or does he have a boat payment due next week?”
I can’t speak for the Grand Am, but I can attest to the Honda Accord that it wasn’t sabotage. It takes special tools to get to the timing belt, and even then, its really difficult. I’m pretty sure the 2000 Accord has a belt that is good for 7 years/105k miles, but can last longer in certain climates. I’m guessing yours wasn’t change on schedule, but you probably didn’t have anyway of checking. I’m sure the salesman thought it had been changed.
The point could be made that the OP deserves a bit of criticism.
This notion of someone sabotaging their car (maybe a notion planted by someone who knows no better) might lead me to believe (rightly or wrongly) the OP may have suspected someone they knew of doing this. If so, bad thinking.
The OP’s comment about a “fine upstanding used car salesman” is also quite likely meant in a very sarcastic way. I can’t see ripping the salesman because the OP failed to do their homework before signing papers on not one, but two, 150k miles cars.
I wouldn’t call a car with a timing belt, opposed to a chain, a POS. There are some great vehicles that are made with both. Bottom line is that you’ve gotta do you homework when purchasing a car–even one on the used car lot. A rule of thumb I use is that if the car reaches 100k miles, start asking about whether the timing belt has been replaced. This is one of the most important things to consider when buying a used car.
If you’re just going to drive the rig until it dies, look for something with a non-interference engine. That way if the belt breaks, you probably won’t have engine damage.
Chains can start slipping and rattling around too and have to be replaced. Not very common, but it does happen.
Do your homework. Preventative maintenance can save you a lot in the long run.
All the more reason for OP to become “car smart”, as I alluded in a prior post. OP does not seem to realize that prior owners sell their cars when they start needing expensive maintenanance and/or repairs. Even an honest used car salesman has no clue how good the car reallly is, unless he has access to the maintenance records.
My grandfather always said “When you buy a used car, you buy someone else’s problems”. Not always true, but a good caveat.