Is the water pump pulley part of the timing belt circuit on this car? On my Corolla the water pump is driven by a separate pulley, one powered by the crankshaft pulley.
In this car the timing belt runs the water pump.
You don’t say what year your Corolla is, but your Toyota probably has a chain, which Toyota went to some years back. In engines with chains, the water pump is run by the serp belt. I seem to recall that my 2005 Corolla had a chain.
I too am inclined to believe the OP’s problem was due to an error in the replacement of the timing belt by the shop.
If they won’t tell you what failed at least get some pictures of the failure.
“Timing belt” is the short answer, something caused the timing belt to fail.
There are two related recalls that may apply to this vehicle;
02-055
Some water pump castings are not within specifications because of a manufacturing die problem. As a result, the timing belt tensioner pulley is misaligned. This pulley misalignment causes the timing belt to contact a bolt on the cylinder head, eventually damaging the belt. In the worst case, a broken timing belt will cause the engine to stall, which could result in a crash.
03-064
The timing belt auto-tensioner is filled with oil to dampen oscillation. Due to a manufacturing problem, the tensioner oil can leak. If enough oil is lost, the timing belt loosens and causes engine noise.
If I’m not mistaken, George’s 1992 Corolla has the 4A-FE engine, which still uses a belt. I believe starting with the 1998 Corolla, Toyota went back to a chain
@Whitey, things in the real world aren’t so easy. There is no Uniform Standard of Best Practices for auto maintenance (well, there sort of is but it’s not at all effective), because real world conditions vary so much from car to car, shop to shop, customer to customer. I would agree that in my business the customer is not only right. But also remember it’s not my car and not my money. It’s my responsibility to help the customer make the best decision for her, but ultimately I can only do what she agrees to pay me for, no more and no less.
Appropriate to this topic one car that I had in today was a Hyundai Sonata V-6 for a timing belt service. And it went out with nothing more than a timing belt and serpentine belt. No water pump, tensioner, or idler pulleys. What kind of professional would I be if I replaced all those parts–thereby doubling the price of the service–just because I was replacing the belt? Can you offer any technical justification for replacing a water pump or timing belt tensioner that has 32,000 miles on it?
“Replacing the water pump is optional. Replacing the tensioner should not be optional.” Uhh, backwards there. Water pumps fail far more frequently than timing belt tensioners.
“This is like the difference between a shop that will let you walk in and say, “replace the starter” without doing any diagnostic work and a shop that will insist on confirming the starter actually needs to be replaced.” Sure. Last week a guy comes in, says he needs a starter, wants a price. I quote him 2 prices, reman or new, and he says ok for the new. I ask him if he would like us to check the electrical system to make sure the starter will fix his complaint. “Yeah, as long as it doesn’t cost anything.” People can’t have it both ways. I’ll guarantee my work, but only if you pay me for it.
"A real professional would say, “I’m sorry, but I won’t do a timing belt job without doing it right.”"
In my professional opinion a 60K service is not complete without servicing the automatic transmission…
“Mr Whitey, here’s the estimate for your 60K service, including changing the transmission fluid and filter with Genuine Toyota parts.”
“But my owner’s manual here clearly states no service of the transmission is required for the life of the car.”
“OK, then we won’t service your car at all.”
@Bry, I think you’re in kind of a hard place here. Yes, it’s possible that the timing belt failure wasn’t related to the previous replacement, but I’d have to see pictures and have very convincing evidence from a reliable source.
Do you have a relationship with this shop? Do you trust them? I can’t speak for how other operations would handle this, but I would tear down the timing belt, determine the cause, and invite you to come by so I could show and explain to you what happened and come to some mutually agreeable decision. But timing belts don’t just break at 9000 miles. If it did, the shop should repair the damage at no cost to you.
Thank you all. All comments have been extremely helpful - much appreciated. FYI, I’m still waiting to hear back from customer service (it’s been 3 days). I imagine that they are equally having problems sorting this out. One item confuses me - the water pump. Is the water pump grouped together in timing belt repairs because they are equally difficult to reach? Someone mentioned that a water pump failure could cause a timing belt failure. Yet someone else suggested that the water pump is downstream of the timing belt. I think, based on all these comments, that I could make a fairly good case, but I’m not sure how to argue a faulty water pump other than simply stating that they should have known to change that at the same time. Suggestions?
The water pump is what pumps the coolant through the engine. In the olden days the pump was run by a fan belt. But on your engine the water pump is inside the timing belt cover and is actually turned by the timing belt. Replacing the water pump means removing and reinstalling the timing belt. By the time an engine reaches 120,000 miles, it is to be expected that some of these moving parts are worn. So when doing the timing belt service it’s common practice to give the customer the option of replacing the water pump (and other moving parts) while the timing covers are off of the engine.
Lets say you replace the timing belt only, and next year the water pump starts leaking. Now you will be paying for the same timing belt job again, PLUS the cost of the pump, coolant, and some additional labor. It would have saved you money in the long run had you replaced the water pump at the original timing belt service. Also, water pump failure that results in timing belt damage can be harmful to your engine.
Prudence dictates that at 120,000 miles, if you’re doing the timing belt you replace the water pump at the same time. Some shops have adopted an all-or-nothing policy but I don’t agree with that. That decision needs to be made by the customer and the shop together based on a number of factors. Sounds like you weren’t given the choice.
Ultimately, until you can definitely tell us what caused your t-belt to fail, we’re all in the dark.
Waiting to hear from customer service? Patience is not always a positive quality.
In the service departments I’ve worked if a customer questioned the manager in person about this sort of problem it usually resulted in a “covered” repair. Right now you are just a name on a work order and a potential sales commision.
This is speculating that this is a workmanship problem and not a unforeseen mechanical failure.
It shouldn’t take more than a few minute to sort out what caused the belt to fail once inside that belt case.
Policies vary by shop and situation. A car manufacturer may state that the belt only needs to be replaced, others state belt and tensioners, and still others state belt/tensioners/water pump as a kit.
The latter kit should be the option used.
The shop walks a line on which one side the shop is perceived as gouging and making work that is not really needed.and on the other hand, if a problem crops up that is related to a half-repair the customer will be equally upset and feel they were taken advantage of that way.
The one part that I respectfully disagree with is performing a partial repair with the customer having certain understandings about the drawbacks to doing a half-repair.
Some customer who smile and fully agree with that half-repair will turn right around and develop amnesia over what was said. Since oral statement mean little, notations on repair order copies provide a little legal leg to stand on.
In a fair number cases involving complaints over things like this it’s often discovered that the car owner has “lost” their copies. Bad feelings continue when their memories are refreshed due to shop copies kept on file.
The last dealer I ever worked for was because of a situation like this and it led to my getting fired or quitting (debateable) with avery volatile disagreement with a weenie service writer over who was responsible.
I guarantee the guilty party was not me; the shop copies backed me to the full hilt.