I, too, THOUGHT this was not an interference engine, but the Gates website says it is. Either way, I do think that if this shop has not truly diagnosed whether or not the valves are bent and pistons damaged (neither task requires removing the cylinder head), they should do that before charging too much more money. I have worked on interference engines that broke the timing belt while running and had no damage. As for inspecting for damage without spending hours pulling the head, you can check for piston damage by pulling the spark plugs and peering down the spark plug hole with the piston at BDC. Should be able to see the whole piston top that way. A borescope is better, but not necessary. For bent valves, pull the camshaft cover (often referred to as a valve cover) and check valve lash. Extreme valve lash means bent valves. A leakdown test can also identify bent valves. Using these methods can get a definitive answer on the condition of the engine within a half hour with little disassembly.
It is sometimes worth the effort to install a new belt and run a compression test without fully reassembling the engine. Nothing will be damaged if the engine is cranked with everything open, even if the engine is swinging on a support bar.
I believe it is a non-interference engine. It is essentially the same as the Escort 2.0 SOHC engines. (I have one in my '97). However, its true that the Gates folks have conflicting info. The actual downloadable book does not indicate an interference design. The web guide does. I have not broken a timing belt to find out.
For my '97 escort a guy I know who is a long time Ford dealer mechanic told me it it non-interference. I emailed Gates once & told them of the discrepancy between their two guides. I received a very terse email in reply that did not acknowledge or explain the discrepancy, but simply said its an interference design. I think they were wrong about that.
The 1.9L SOHC they used up until '96 is almost the same engine and it is not an interference design. Unfortunately, I did have occasion to test that one out on a '91 Escort. In my defense, it broke prematurely for who knows what reason.
It is also odd that, as Caddyman noted, the book says “inspect at 120K and replace as needed…” I’m guessing that came from a '00 Focus manual, but it is what my '97 manual says. Its the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen and means poor Hocus (and many others!) may have easily ended up with a broken belt even if they followed the manual. My interpretation of this most bizarre and inappropriate recommendation is that Ford considers the Escort/Focus lines to be disposable cars - good for about 8yrs/100K and after that just cross you fingers & call a scrapper when it finally grenades - ? I don’t know what they’re thinking, but I’m not sure the maintenance schedule would have helped Hocus.
The carbureted 1.6L Escort engine would bend valves but I don’t recall a 1.9 L getting trashed when the belt stripped. I remember pulling dozens of the early heads.
gsragtop: good point on sticking with damaged goods if you are familiar with the damages! I have a cousin who is a used car dealer in VA, if he can get me a deal on a good engine, I would jump at that.
I just rode back home with the tow truck from the shop, and the truck driver told me his friend has a totaled (from the side) Focus with 50,000 miles. His friend wants my doors.
Before I left the shop the mechanic popped those three bolts to look at the rockers, and they were in good shape. He cranked the car for a few seconds (it wouldn’t actually start) and that nasty knocking sound was still there. He said he thinks the rods are bent.
I just checked the manual and scheduled maintenance guide on Focus Fanatics website and didn’t see anything in there about when to change the timing belt. A couple users did say 120,000 miles.
http://www.focusplanet.com/downloads/focusmanuals/2000/2000_scheduled_maintenance_guide.pdf
http://www.focusplanet.com/downloads/focusmanuals/2000/2000_focus_owner_guidemanual.pdf
And as far as interference/non-interference goes, no one seems to know:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258210
I’m pretty handy, but know nothing about cars. Still, I’m considering just getting a new belt and tool kit for the job. People in the thread seem to think you’ll get your definite answer about damage once you have a fresh timing belt in. Still, in my car kind of sounds like this:
This, however is a dropped valve seat video. Wonder if that is my problem?
I was actually wondering about a dropped valve seat all along. I didn’t bring it up because I was assuming (always a bad idea) that the shop pulled the timing belt cover and observed an actual broken belt. Do you know whether they actually pulled the cover or not?
No matter, I suppose. If it IS a dropped valve seat or sounds like one, this engine was basically done from the first rattle. The problem either way is that it is basically a cheap little car. If you have to rely on a mechanic, the labor just to investigate is expensive. Then they might pull the head to find the pistons damaged as well…and it can become a downward spiral. The best way to address engine damage in a car like this is a salvage yard engine.
Just to throw this out there as food for thought…if the tow truck driver’s friend has a totaled Focus with 50,000 miles…instead of that guy buying the doors off your (otherwise well maintained, and not wrecked) Focus, see if you can buy the totaled Focus’s engine and have your mechanic swap engines. Of course, the other Focus needs to be the same year and have the same exact engine in order for it to be an easy swap.
I don’t know about the Focus engine, but I do know the1.9L & 2.0L SOHC & DOHC Ford Escort engines were non interference engines. I’ve had a timing belt break on my '88 Ford Escort with the 1.9L and have known people with the 2.0L who have had the belts break and all that’s involved is aligning the timing marks and putting a new belt on.
The Focus and Escort engines are grouped together and use the same belt numbers, but some are listed as interference and some not…strange…
But we don’t know, for sure, that the timing belt cover has been removed to check the belt…The true cause of the failure seems to be guesswork and conjecture at this point…
“Before I left the shop the mechanic popped those three bolts to look at the rockers, and they were in good shape. He cranked the car for a few seconds (it wouldn’t actually start) and that nasty knocking sound was still there. He said he thinks the rods are bent.”
Did the rockers move??? If so, the timing belt is not the problem…
They didn’t pull the cover, the just looked at it with a flashlight. They said they could see broken teeth…
I might try to replace the belt myself. Although I don’t think that’s going to make the “death rattle” sound stop.
Caddyman:
I don’t know how rockers normally act, but they were vibrating. I didn’t see any mechanical movement. The whole engine is vibrating, so, not sure. Maybe I need to look at it myself.
As the engine cranks, the rockers should all move equally as the cam turns, opening and closing the valves…If you try to move them with your hand, there should be virtually no slop or play in them…If you find one or more of them that you can rock with your hand, something is bent, jammed, broken…
I know the 2nd and 3rd generation Escorts have a bad track record of dropping valve seats. I’ve never heard of it in the Focus, but I’m not as familiar with the Focus as I am the Escort, so this may be a possibility. If it’s a dropped valve seat, it’s sometimes possible to get by with only a head replacement
The engine didn’t really change much from the Escort to the Focus and the valve seat problem remained - its basically any of the 1.9L to 2.0L SOHC engines whether in Escort or Focus. Given the noise described, I’d say the engine probably junk either way. Once the valve seat goes it usually just wrecks everything else.
My '94 Escort dropped a valve seat several years ago. The only thing that was needed was a new head.