Can’t say for sure, but the timing belt guide plate on my Corolla looks very similar to that. I’m a driveway diy’er, change timing belts very rarely, so when I was confronted with that part I had to think on it a bit before deciding which orientation was correct. It wasn’t at all obvious, to me anyway. The the factory service manual wasn’t of much help in clearing up the confusion either, other than saying to put it on w/the correct orientation. I did believe I remembered the orientation it had when I removed it, that was the best clue. I put a note in the repair manual for the next time: “make a note of the guide plate orientation before removing it!!” … lol …
Pro mechanics change timing belts all the time, so it seems sort of hard to believe a pro mechanic would swap it 180 degrees.
I agree with Joe Mario and I wonder if this service writer who looked at this is the same one who said the car did not have one at all…
Keep in mind that a service writer is not particularly the one you want to ask for a mechanical opinion. The vast majority are mechanically illiterate and the vast majority will never want to appear clueless to a customer so they will say anything that comes to mind whether it’s correct or not.
You didn’t give this poor guy a sporting chance, how is that office boy going to figure out what these parts look like if you are holding them? If you called one of my service writers they probably wouldn’t leave their desk, they rarely get to see the inside of an engine and wouldn’t know what to look for, by now they wouldn’t be answering your calls, they don’t have time to be part of your investigation.
The belt supplier is not going to pay for the engine, this is a workmanship error. Now that parts are scattered around any parts supplier is going to reject a warranty claim. Shop # 1 may have flipped that timing belt guide plate when they inspected the damage, then shop # 2 may not have noticed the cause of the belt failure, the technician wouldn’t be interested in placing blame and starting a battle, he gets paid to repair the vehicle.
Sorry bout your problem. A little advice for the future though: Always tell your place of repair to keep the old/replaced parts for you to have. Even though you may discard them immediately after leaving shop, still tell them to keep the replaced parts for you. This may keep them honest on what they say needed replacement. If nothing else, they will know that they have a no nonsense customer on their hands. Now your problem: Do not let this repair shop work on your vehicle again for anything. The excuses they gave are not only irresponsible and insulting…but laughable as well. That indicates to me that they know a little something of what/why it happened…and they may be liable. However, suing may not e a practical (money wise) course of action. If it were me, I would chalk it up to a learning experience…and have the work done elsewhere. There are a number of things that could have gone wrong. But bad or negligent work is my main thought on this. One time when I was having my timing (could be belt or chain) done, my mechanic asked if I wanted a complete job for optimal performance or just the change. He told me what was involved with a complete job; there are so many other things that needs to be done with the replacement for car to run at top efficiency. When all other things were done (most which need to b done eventually anyway), my 250,000 miles car ran like a new car. Whenever I am in need of a belt or chain change, I do it his recommended way every time…with the same satisfactory results. Getting back to your problem: All possible or related causes have pretty much been mentioned. And I too have never heard of a belt disintegrating to dust. They may even have showed you dust from something else. Maybe they replaced with the wrong size or type belt. One thing you can do for your own info: Ask shop for model number and brand name of belt. Then do research on any defects or problems with that belt. Best advice for the future though, on car repair: Don’t settle for any mechanic or repair service. Do your diligent research, and try to find the best and most honest mechanic. The ones that greet you with a smile and a big bill, may not always be as friendly to your wallet.
It would be nice to see a picture of the other side of the plate. If it was mounted backwards, that would be facing the belt and have more evidence of that fact…
Both sides of that plate was posted. The guilty side is not shown now.
The guilty side showed shiny metal on the sharp edges of the plate where it appeared the belt had been rubbing. Whoever did the work just wasn’t thinking.
For those not wanting to click on the link, here’s the first pic Frankie802 posted showing the side of the plate that was apparently (mistakenly) facing the belt.
Thanks, now I see what you were saying. THAT is 100% definitive evidence. The clean crank sprocket mounting area, the clean rim, the shavings debris. Tester nailed it early on…
To answer a couple of questions you asked, the actual shift points are determined by the PCM based on inputs from the engine and transmission. The biggest factors are throttle position and manifold vacuum but there are others. It could be that if this is a newly remanufactured engine (reman), that the initial drag which will go down as the engine breaks in will mean less throttle is used and the shift points will lower. Odds are at this time that the new engine isn’t developing as much power as the old one and you are using more throttle. This does not mean the new engine is defective.
It probably will sound different, especially if new tensioners and/or a new accessory drive belt were added. The sound could make you think the engine is shifting at higher shift points when it really isn’t. You really have to rely on the tach for that.
I’ll have to agree with @ken2116 on the brakes. The bump you feel could be related to the brakes and that would be a real concern, but it could be something else. If this is new since having the engine replaced, I would suspect that you have a defective motor mount instead, either way, it needs to be checked.
As for the belt guide, do not keep handling it. Every time you touch it, you contaminate or remove evidence. Retain all the rubber dust in its as found location, it is evidence.
There were a lot of comments that the shop may not have replaced the belt, that does happen, but and old belt just snaps or the teeth come off, they do not shred suddenly. Clearly the belt was being rubbed and worn away. @Tester was right from the beginning.
Find out what the limit for small claims is in your area. If it’s $5k, then that is what I would pursue. It would be worth paying a professional to show up with you for that kind of coin. Basically, the diagram with the warning on proper orientation of the guide, the guide itself with pictures so it doesn’t get disturbed and the pro to testify this is what would result from installing it backwards. You may not get all of the money for the new engine as the law says you need to be made whole and that would be the value of your old, used engine. But I think they would just penalize the shop the full amount for all the other incidental expenses you’ve incurred. I normally am a bit more cautious but this seems like a slam dunk…
Edit- on second thought, it might be worth having a lawyer draw up a demand letter. That might not cost too much and get the desired result if they have insurance. Would save the extra effort to go to court…
Hi yes thanks! It’s a small state so I am still on the hunt for someone that would be willing to appear in court. I have been told by a lawyer that technically I can subpoena Honda and they have to appear so I could potentially use that if I had to. I am writing a demand letter to the orginal shop now and will send by certified mail. Was going to try to talk to these guys again in a friendly way but honestly I am sort of scared of that and also you know, the jig is up, they just need to give me my money already so ya, demand letter is next! (Might try to write a demand letter with a friendly twist)
At this point, your car question has been answered. Now you are getting into legal territory. Due diligence on finding a good attorney by asking around and checking the internet and BBB for a good lawyer. If you know anyone who owns a small business near you, ask them which lawyer they are most afraid of.
Then follow that attorney’s advice. The shop passed on the first opportunity to make things right with you so you do not owe them any further courtesy. They chose hardball so you need to get in the game with someone who can play hardball better than the shop.
Ok thank you.
I figured out one of the issues with the new engine. The air compressor for the ac is cycling on and off every 11 seconds. Also makes a weird squeaky noise when I turn it on and off. Is this dangerous? Read ac problems can cause engine damage. Honda told me they charged it before it left. Maybe over filled? It worked 100% fine in old engine no noise, is the air compressor in the engine?
Last thing: new engine. Don’t know how best to describe this noise but it seems like a background vibration to the sound of the engine. It seems to vibrate more and then less on about 1 second intervals and is higher pitched the faster I go. Is this something rubbing?
Lots of great things in this chat, just read every post and have a little to add. Sounded like they didn’t change the belt and might’ve ran the engine and sanded the old marks off the belt so it doesn’t look like the old one, but then we got the “evidence” clearly was rubbing that plate due to negligence. I would’ve asked to see what repair manual or steps they followed (seems like they just stuck things bad where they were and didn’t follow even a simple YouTube video…but they’re professionals: someone who gets paid to do a job). Also might wanna check the wheel bearings to see if one is squeaking or it could be ceramic brake pads, if neither, see if there’s any cuts or deep grooves in the rotors (if you just drove they will be very hot…please don’t burn yourself…been there done that). As for the engine vibration and gas mileage, I can’t help much without being there, but I know your concern because my 2012 Kia Optima and lot of Kias vibrate like crazy especially when the compressor is on. Hope you sort everything out and update anything that happens:)
clearly was rubbing that plate due to negligence. I would’ve asked to see what repair manual or steps they followed (seems like they just stuck things bad where they were and didn’t follow even a simple YouTube video…but they’re professionals: someone who gets paid to do a job). Also might wanna check the wheel bearings to see if one is squeaking or it could be ceramic brake pads, if neither, see if there’s any cuts or deep grooves in the rotors (if you just drove they will be very hot…please don’t burn yourself…been there done that). As for the engine vibration and gas mileage, I can’t help much without being there, but I know your concern because my 2012 Kia Optima and lot of Kias vibrate like crazy especially when the compressor is on. Hope you sort everything out and update anything that happens:)