Whose to say the independent shop that installed the plugs was the one responsible for the damaged threads. The OP stated a Toyota dealer (same one?) had been doing all previous service work and if the dealer had their hand in a prior plug replacement then maybe they’re the ones who damaged the plug threads, not the independent.
If the collective service department at a dealership can’t figure out how to fix a spark plug hole without sending the car owner into a 4 figure debt load then I certainly would not put it past someone in that dept. to ram plugs home with an air wrench.
I can see it now. Someone comes into the dealer for a service which requires spark plugs as part of that service. One has seized and brings the threads out with it. Sorry, you need a new engine.
Oil drain plug stripped; sorry, need a new pan at a minimum and a new engine at worst.
Freeze plug oozing? Sorry, need a new motor because we ain’t takin’ a chance on that.
Stripped wheel stud? Sorry, you’re getting a 500 dollar hub assembly instead of a 2 dollar stud.
What should be done is to issue anyone at the service dept. involved in this debacle a grocery bag to cover their heads with; preferably plastic and with no air holes.
To stuckonthesideoftherode; a spark plug should stay put. But in your case due to either over tightening (which damages the threads on the head) or under tightening the spark plug worked itself loose and came shooting out. This is inconvienient but not castostrophic.
Your dealer did not give you the option of a several hundred dollar repair using a device called a heli coil. It is an effective way to install the spark plug and send you on your way without future problems.
In my opinion the dealer did not present you with all the options and left out the least expensive and most practical option of them all. For this reason I feel the Toyota dealer is most guilty of taking advantage of your unfortunate situation. The shop that installed the plugs messed up too, but the remedy of a motor switch is the real rip off.
This can happen to any vehicle and ones with Aluminum heads are even more prone. I use “neverseize” on all of my spark plugs each time I do them. The steel plug in an Aluminumhead is just begging for trouble…esp if no one lubricates or neve-seizes the threads. By the time you need new plugs getting the old plug out can be treacherous…I take my sweet time removing them and sometimes have to loosen a 1/4 turn then tighten again…loosen 1/2 turn and tighten…over and over more and more till the plug comes out…this is COMMON… It is only when a “mechanic” simply loosens the plug with no regard to how difficult it is to actuall loosen the plug…when they do this they tear up the aluminum threads because the plug is steel and MUCH stronger than the Aluminum. This is where all these probs occur. A stripped spark plug hole CAN be permanently repaired however without too much effort…so I am also wondering why you replaced the engine. YOu could have made your case with the shop while the old engine was still in there…and it could have been fixed…
I am employing the old rule that the least complex explaination is the most likely the correct explaination.
The OP won’t even explain the problem to the shop that put the plugs in but will place blame on the Dealer for not getting her out of a situation that there is no proof they created. If the OP does not like the price from the Dealer go get another quote from someone else.
The most common reason for a heater to become inoperative in a home central unit is a faulty thermocouple.
So if the homeowner who knows absoolutely nothing about central units calls a HVAC guy who says they need a new 2500 dollar heater instead of a 8.95 thermocouple that takes around 5 minutes to install this would you consider this the proper thing to do?
The OP has stated they know nothing about cars. As this repair was presented to them by the dealer and as far as they know, this car was in serious mechanical trouble when nothing could be further from the truth.
Let me ask you this. For the sake of argument, you’re off for 2 weeks to the Canadian backwoods with a .458 Weatherby to shoot salmon in shallow water. You’re in the sticks with no communication with your family.
A loved one of yours (wife, whatever) is in a situation where they are stranded on the side of the road like the OP was. They get towed in and go through the same procedure as the OP did and authorize the work under the same scenario.
You arrive home in a week or so to hear about this incident. Are you going to:
A. Be glad they got if fixed for that 4400 dollar price tag?
B. Get irate because the wife got stiffed and head off to the dealer to rip them apart?
C. Blow it off as one of those things?
Your response would be…?
If this vehicle came to me, I wouldn’t care who touched the spark plugs last. I would simply quote the customer for repairing the cylinder head, do the work, and send them on their way. There is no logical reason this situation, as it has been presented to us, should warrant replacing the entire engine. A damaged spark plug hole does not completely destroy the engine and is typically an easy fix, especially on a four cylinder like in the OP’s vehicle. The main problem I, and most everyone else on this forum, is seeing is not that someone tore up one of the spark plug holes, causing the OP to need the engine replaced at a cost of $4,400, but that a shop has charged the OP 4,400 to replace their engine over a simple, fairly common problem that could have been remedied in less than an hour for $100-150 (plus cost of a coil if the plug damaged a coil on its way out). The big issue should be not who along the way, and at which service, damaged the spark plug hole, but why on earth anyone who calls themselves a mechanic would order an engine replacement over such a simple problem as a damaged spark plug hole.
The helicoil deal would have fixed your old engine. You paid too much for a used/pre-owned entgine, especially in a vehicle with 150k on it that is 7 years old. Sorry you made a mistake.
You really must have “eyes-on” damaged threads to make the call as to what repair technique (if any) would deliver the required reliability and function. I would have liked to have gotten the same look at that hole that the Dealer that decided against some of the less expensive methods of repair had.
I cannot in my wildest imagination envision a situation wherein a stripped sparkplug hole justifies removing the entire engine and replacing it with a used one. Unless some really unexpected and unusual facts come to light, I stand by my belief that the OP got screwed big time.
No matter how bad the hole damage might have been, even an entire new head is about $300…perhaps $1500 totally installed. See the link I provided to replacement heads.
The OP posted an articulate and, as far as I can tell, complete description of what happened. At this point I have no reason to suspect there was anywhere near enough damage to justify an engine swap. If there truely was more to the story, I’d appreciate the OP posting back and letting us know.
If one completely leaves out the asinine scenario about removing the head to repair it, replace the engine, etc. there are a few other points to consider.
The OP was quoted 2600 dollars to repair the head. If one assumes 600 dollars for gaskets, fluids, and machine shop work (and this is figuring way high in my opinion) then how do they arrive at 2 grand for a cylinder head R & R? What flat rate manual and shop hourly rate are they using?
Every head I’ve ever done an R & R on is generally in the 4-7 hour range. If one figured 100 dollars an hour that 2 grand means 20 hours R & R time. That’s bunk.
There’s always the possibility that the mechanic who made this diagnosis may not be that stupid either. Maybe this guy has a Matrix or another Toyota that uses the same engine sitting out back or at home with a blown engine and which he may have purchased for a scrap price from someone who did not want to put money into it. He buys it at a scrap price and voila, he now has an easily repairable engine to put into that vehicle.
Mechanics get presented with these opportunities and I’ve purchased a few cars myself over the years when someone wanted to dump the car rather than fix it. There’s nothing unethical about this unless someone is fudging the severity of the damage, etc.
I’m of the opinion this is not what happened here though. I think this was a case of a relatively young clueless mechanic with a tool box drawer full of certificates and a UTI diploma working in conjunction with an even more clueless service writer who then proceeded to start at the back of the book and work their way forward.
How many posts has there been on this board about cylinder head replacements due to blown out spark plugs? More than I can remember that’s for sure. This is just one more to add to the total and made more extreme by replacing the entire engine.
It’s no different than the posts which crop up all of the time where someone is being advised to replace their oil pan because the drain threads are stripped.
Typically overpricing a job is a way of getting a customer or job you do not want to go elsewhere, in this case the custromer actually took them up on it. It is the managements job to make the most money they can for their employeers, no one forced the OP to take the first estimate given and to take it before she checked with the shop that caused all the trouble. At times it seems people are determined to pay as much for a service as possible.I am sure the Dealer was suprised the OP bit on their high price also.
I guess I see this particular situation in the category of “fudging the severity of the damage” as well as being dishonest about the repairability of the problem. Both I consider dishonest.
Real nice oldschool. Now you’re saying the dealer was trying to scare the customer off by over-inflating (astronomically) a bill and since the customer was dumb enough to authorize it they got what they deserved.
The OP is not dumb. The OP is apparently a lady who has no mechanical knowledge and had to rely on the advice given by the pros (alleged in this case) on a car that was towed in after stranding them on the road.
You’re wanting to lay the blame off on the OP now for not getting a second opinion?
So I’ll ask you again. If this incident happened with YOUR wife or loved one and you found out after the fact your reaction would b…?
I ask you, If you were a manager at Circuit City and you heard your employee tell a customer “Hey they have the exact same printer over at Best Buy for $50.00 less”, would that employee get the “employee of the month” parking spot?
I could see managers I have worked for say “no way am I going to eat the bottom end repair on this 150K engine when it goes south after we had the head off”.For some reason this is the only way theY were willing to do the job, it is their right to set prices where they want (and be prepared for the free market to take their customers). You guys have to get your noses out of your little red books, this is capitalism at its best.
It’s scenarios like this that give all mechanics a bad name, and it’s very unfortunate that one of our regulars sees nothing wrong with what this dealer did. $4,400 for a used engine is outrageous enough, but I still feel that an engine replacement over something this trivial is ridiculous. Their alternative solutions were grossly overpriced as well. There is no reason to remove the cylinder head to do a repair like this. It’s a thirty minute job.
To the OP: when faced with an expensive repair like this, get a second opinion. Even a phone call to another shop with a description of the problem or diagnosis would probably have resulted in talking to someone who has seen this before and knows how to fix it fast and cheap. This may not happen in all scenarios, but for this one a couple of phone calls would probably have saved you about four thousand dollars.