The poor state of the tire industry

Maintenance/Repairs
21

The replies have been interesting and thoughtul.

Being fully aware of all the variables that go into how well a tire performs, including the mounting and balancing issues, and being aware that the process capabilities in this “heavy” industry make distribution curves as clean as those in, say, the machining industry impossible, I still believe that the tire industry accepts as normal variation levels that would be unacceptable in any other industry I’m familliar with.

I’ve never visited a tire manufacturing facility. I’ve worked in (as a Quality Engineer, manager, and Sr. manager) the microwave industry, precious metals plating, aircraft instrumentation and navigation systems, laser rangefinding, and even over-the-road tank truck tanks & pumping systems. I’ve toured and visited (in various capacities including process consulting) machining facilities, PCB manufacturing facilities, injection molding facilities, casting houses, conformal coatings shops, and just about everything else BUT tire manufacturing. I’ve implemented statistical process control systems, ISO9001 systems, design for manufacture system, the FDA Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) systems, even NASA 5300.4 quality systems. I’ve written and performed (DOD) qualification plans, design validation plans (automotive), and more processes and test protocols than you can count. I’ve done more failure analysis than you can imagine. I’ve been part of countless design teams.

Yes, I’ve had bad tires. There is also one brand (BF Goodys) that have always rolled true, smoothly, and worn acceptably. And yup, I’ve had junky cheapo Chinese tires (“Bluebirds” I think they were called). The vibrating set I referenced in my original post were Continentals. I had probably 150,000 smooth rolling miles on the truck when I put those vibrators on. My smooth ride returned after I replaced them with BF Goodys. It was definitely the tires. Yeah, I maintained the truck obsessively. It was in exceptional condition. Including the chassis.

The post was a query to see if my opinion was common. Apparently, people’s experiences have varied widely. A lot of good insight has been offered. I thank you all. Now I must ponder…

22

Not everything is a gimmick and tires do get better.

Usually over a long period of time. If you look at tire improvements over the past 20 years…they really haven’t improved that much.

23

My experience has been the opposite. In the 1970s, I had several bad tires. Some suffered tread separation. Others were out of round.

Last year, I got one, out of a set of four Kumho tires, whose tread began to separate at 5,000 miles. It was the first bad one in thirty years. The dealer replaced it for no charge.

24

I think you’ll find a LOT of American manufacturing quality has suffered greatly. I have a refrigerator (Hotpoint) in my cellar that I just can’t part with. I bought it 35 years ago for $25 when I first got married. At the time it was over 40 years old. I’ve put $0 into it…it just keeps running and running and running. It looks like hell…But as long as there’s electricity to the house it still runs. 5 years after we bought it we bought a new bigger modern one and the old Hotpoint was delegated to the cellar. We’re now on our 4th refrigerator since then.

25

The 70’s was a tough time for the tire industry. That’s when they were switching to Radial tires. This was totally new to tire manufacturers…a lot of trial and error problems along the way. By the 80’s they had the process down pretty good.

26

After some thought, I’ll have to agree that the entire industry has problems, because of the issues with off-brand tires sold cheaply at parts stores. They must represent a pretty substantial fraction of all tires sold. I avoid them, and recommend others do the same.

27

From personal experience I can say that the Bridgestone Dueler AT Revos are better tires than the orginal Dueler AT’s. And that’s no small feat as the Dueler AT’s were excellent all around tires IMO.

28

I have a 2007 Honda Odessey, that since the day I bought it has pulled to the left, no matter who drives it or on what road. I took it to the dealer after a month and they said it was in alignment. Took it in for the first service of tire rotation and oil change, still pulled to the left. Took it in for the 2nd service same as the first, said the pulling had stopped, still an issue. I think it is the tires but the dealer won’t look past the alignment when you tell them it is pulling. I think it is a tire issue, but can’t convince them.

29

what brand of tires did you buy? i have this little saying " life is too short for cheap tires). cheap tires tend to wander, shake, get poor tire wear and offer less that satifactory handling. i have had great luck with michlen, perelli, yokahama, goodyear, (i forget the model but not the cheat ones). on muscle cars i always use bf goodrich. not only because they were OEM, but the suspension systems seem to be set up for them. for specialty vehicles micky thompsons are great. keep in mind that when you pay under $225 for a set of cheap tires, they will generally last 30 - 40k. conversely $450 for tires will not only get you 2 times the miliage, but it will aleviate the all the annoying side effects of cheap tires. in general i think tires have improved over the last 30 or so years. good luck.

just my $ .02

30

I’ve tried just about every make including Michelins. I’ve never had a problem with BF Goody’s, and the Hankooks I have on now have been flawless. The Coopers I had on before these had probably the best cornering and poor weather traction of any tire I’ve ever owned, but they were road noisy (aggressive tread) and did not wear well. I haven’t had the Hankooks in winter weather yet.

The Continentals were unquestionably the worst tires I ever had. The Chinese “Bluebirds” (I think that’s what they were called) were junk, but they were dirt cheap so I sort of expected that. They rode acceptably, but the wet weather traction, tracking and cornering were all marginal at best. They were still better than the Continentals. The criteria I use to determine good from bad is tracking, cornering, smoothness, noise, poor weather traction, and (to a lesser extent) wear.

My current Hankooks: smoothness, roadnoise, wet weather traction, and tracking have all been outstanding. And at an excellent price. It’s too early to tell about winter traction or longevity. Cornering has been perfectly good, but not as good as the Coopers (I needed to slow down anyway!). If they do okay in winter, I’ll buy them again.

Winter traction is mostly a function of tread design. If they’re too sketchy in winter I may see of Hankook has a more aggressive design in my size, realizing other compromises may come with the package. Different tire designs come with different strengths and weaknesses.

I still feel that even though tires have improved a great deal in the last 40 years, I’ve seen more anomolies on new tires than I’ve ever seen on any other new product. And it still bothers me.

31

I suggest that someone works for a tire company!!! BTW, how is the pension plan at Michelin, Mr Meehan?

My experience: I’ve had lots of defective tires, with companies which won’t always back up their warranty. Or, tires that wear out WAY too quickly-- say, at 15,000 miles (are you listening, Les Schwab?)… Not to mention scummy dealers who add on hidden charges (“We added $50 for siping, cuz we figured you’d want it.”)… ditto, for Les Schwab.

32

No tire problems at Ford? Well, at “Quality Comes First” Ford, you guys also believed that the Pinto was a good car!!! Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa!!! Sorry… my mom owned a Pinto… the last American car she ever bought…

33

I agree with many on this site- Costco and Michelin are a winning combination. Also, if you want the wheels to go with the winter tires try Tirerack.com. All balanced and ready to put on.

34

Is there such a thing as a belt “slipping” on a new tire? I’ve posted part of this under ball joints…a mechanic said this probably was the front in problem I’ve experienced. Make sense to anyone?
Thanks.

35

There is no such thing as a slipped belt.

The origin of the term comes from the early days of building radial tires where bias tire equipment and processes were used and occasionally a belt would “slip” during the expansion process. This would cause an unusual wear pattern in the tire.

Modern radial tire building doesn’t use an expansion process, so the belts can’t slip. But there are unusual wear patterns that some folks think can be attributed to the tire, so they incorrectly use the term “slipped belt” to describe why the tire is at fault. It is also common to think the belt “moved” after the tire was cured - and that’s impossible, too!

Most commonly, the term is used to describe “irregular wear” - which is a fairly large category and includes diagonal wear (like you’ve described), feathering (This is a normal wear pattern, but misalignment can exaggerate the effect), cupping (In bias tires this was easily identified, but modern radial tires don’t get this as easily and the term “cupping” is used where “irregular wear” or “diagonal wear” would be more appropriate), heel and toe wear ( A normal wear pattern, but misalignment exaggerates this as well.) and many others.

The term is also used to describe a separation - where the internal components of a tire come apart. And while there are many causes for this - both service related and manufacturing related - the belt slipping isn’t one of them.

So while the term is occasionally used, it is used incorrectly.

36

I have had good service from Discount Tire ( www.discounttire.com ) by going to their stores. Both service, and the tires they have sold me over the years has been above average, IMHO.

Going to Firestone stores that I did for a while, made me feel like a ‘mark’, and they wanted to perform the same service again and again. Going to Discount Tire, they helped me diagnose problems, referred me to a quality place to have my suspension worked on, then put on new tires. They went from replacing every 9 to 15 months, to lasting years.

Since then, even when we moved out of state, I have managed to get tires and service from them. Also, I got the same service no matter which store I went to. I have used at least 5 of their different stores over time.

If all service providers provide the same quality I have experienced, we would all be happier and an entire industry could hold their head high. As it is, going other places, many dealers included, I feel slimy just by darkening their doors.