The myth of maintenance free Japanese cars (...that go to 200k with just gas, tires, and oil)

Someone created this myth about Japanese cars not needing repairs, just like someone said that the hood of a Rolls Royce was “sealed” so you did not need to touch the engine.

I agree with Mike that all cars need repairs, but good Japanese cars need them far less often, about half as often as US and European cars, in my experience. And repairs are by and large reasonably priced.

Our 1994 Nissan Sentra had radiator, starter, alternator, muffler & tail pipe and CV joints replaced by the current (2012) 135,000 miles. It also had an oil leak repaired and had 2 brake jobs. And, of course a battery and 2 sets of tires. That’s over 18 years of driving. Regular maintenance was spark plugs & wires, drive belt, rad flush (3x), transmission fluid & filter (2x), and a couple of light bulbs.

If you count trips to the garage for the first 100,000 miles the picture becomes somewhat clearer:

  1. Ford Granada 56 trips, 15 items replaced

  2. 1965 Dodge Dart 39 trips, 24 items replaced

  3. 1984 Chevy Impala V8, 21 trips, 13 items replaced

  4. 1988 Chevy Caprice V8, 33 trips, 14 items replaced

  5. 1994 Nissan Sentra, 18 trips, 11 items replaced

The Chevy Impala comes close but those miles were put on over a much shorter time and were nearly all highway miles. That car did make it to 320,000 miles on the original engine and transmission without any repairs to those other than a timing chain and water pump.

The OP mentions a rattling suspension also but even that may not be the fault of the car. That could be worn ball joints, tie rods, sway bar links, struts, etc. and could be due more to enivronmental and road surface conditions than anything else.

Just offhand, I’m not convinced the OP’s car is trouble prone due to an inferiority complex as much as it is just a car that that has seen some use.
However, I do agree with the OP’s statement in general.

My 1994 Civic EX purchased with 10k miles for $9,000 in 1995.

225k miles replacing only timing belt/water pump/belt/spark plug/brake fluid, distrib with major maintenance only then. Brakes x2, muffler x2, radiator x1,tiresx4

Quickly lube(walmart mostly) oil change every 4k with occasional air filter

It ran perfectly when sold at 225k in 2004 for $2k however in need of struts, tires, overdue timing belt, major maintenance done last at 90k. AC blew warm so on a hot day so it tipped me over the edge.

I think it met the reality of myth and the next buyer thought so.

Wife had a similar experience with her 96 Civic purchased new. Father interceded at 100k miles with the major/only maintenance. Otherwise she changed air filter herself and had oil changes every x miles. She sold at 181k miles running fine for $3000. She had brakes x3, muffler once and fixed by a scary shop for $100 in worst part of Lawrence MA. She did have a check engine light intermittent for 3yrs finally stalling in front of dealer. Turned out to be cat convertor and two O2 sensors, luckily Honda had a 150k extended warranty on this stuff so all covered at 148k.

We maintain our current cars. Subaru turbo has not been as reliable but enjoy it far more.

I am still enamored by Honda based on past experience and own an Acura. Not a fan though of dreadful timing belts.

@raj

You seem to have gotten great service out of your Hondas. My brother still has his 1987 Accord, which has had a number of things replaced in the 350,000 miles he has put on it.

I believe he had struts, A/C compressor, starter, alternator, some body work, timing belt (2x), a clutch plate, and the rest was regular maintenance items.

He is returning from England and will buy another Honda, probably a loaded Civic this time.

I never heard that myth. Just how did that myth go, anyway?

There is no such myth. The perception that foreign cars of any make can go 200,000 miles with only gas, tires and oil does not exist. Nobody expects any car of any make to do that. The perception is simply that some makes, Honda and Toyota specifically, have better reliability histories than others. These makes use this perception in their marketing, just as BMW and Audi use the perception that German engineering is superior and Volvo plays on its reputation for safety. I’ve never heard or seen the statement that is your title, nor have I ever met anyone who thinks that.

If I understand your second paragraph correctly, you’re suggesting that the maintenance costs of Honda owners is WAY higher than that of BMW oeners because Honda owners don;t typically do their own maintenance and BMW owners do. I submit that it’s the other way around. Honda owners are often young people, who do their own work to save money. BMW owners are typically a more affluent socioeconomic group more prone to having the work done rather than doing it themselves. Hondas are also less complicated and easier to repair than BMWs and parts are far cheaper.

My son had two BMWs. He loved the cars, but not the cost of supporting them. His perspective is that supporting a BMW is analogous to having a child. In 2006 he bought a Scion, found it far cheaper to support, and plans now to get a Toyota pickup (when he returns from Afghanistan).

I’m sorry to hear you had such bad luck with your Camry. My own experiences with Toyotas have been very different. I’ve even run a Toyota pickup to 338,000 miles with no internal work on the engine other than a timing chain at 299,000 miles and no drivetrain problems. I even got 295,000 miles out of the original clutch. Had the car not been totalled in an accident, I’d probably still have it.

My 1995 Toyota Avalon has never shown its CEL, and it has over 180,000 miles on it. Sorry about your misfortune.

My 1979 Toyota Celica has needed an exhaust manifold, and one clutch (driven in congested area on Long Island). It has over 200,000 miles.

My 1970 Chevy Chevelle wnet through four Rochester carbs during my 100,000 miles with it. Good car, though.

Where did you get these repairs done? $400+ for an O2 sensor? $600+ for an Evap canister? . I’ve had to replace both of these items on my F-150, The O2 sensor I did myself, it was like $80ish for all the materials (O2 sensor itself, some WD40 to loosen the old one, and some thread sealer.), the Evcap canister was around $220 for the total cost of the job at an indpendent mechanic.

200k miles with little or no maintenance will be a reality with electric cars…until then, the internal combustion motor powered car is a money maker for those who are poorly informed and unable to not only read the manufactures maintenance manual, but won’t get second opinions. Somehow, we feel that anyone who knows something we don’t, won’t take advantage of us. OP, your prices are way out of line and seem to follow the money making dealer line.

You could own the most reliable vehicle made and service providers will find away of squeezing you, if you let them.

dagosa, that expensive battery pack in the electric car won’t last 200K. You’ll probably need to replace it at least 5 or 6 times and most likely more. And, you’ll still have other maintenance items to deal with. Tires, struts, and brakes still need periodic replacement. And, of course, it’s still a mechanical device, so things will be prone to break from time to time.

My son drives my 1999 Accord with 195,000 miles. Aside from some brake and fuel lines done 4 years ago and a couple of fairly inexpensive power steering lines last year it has needed nothing but maintenance items since I bought it with 83,000 miles six years ago. I keep waiting for it to blow up or need something expensive but the worst I have to deal with right now is a new set of tires. And it still cruises real nice on the highway (based on his sheepish admission of pushing it over 90 mph recently). Darned kids…

During the 80s when US car quality was abysmal, a Japanese car dealer took a small Japanese pickup in trade. It had over 1 million miles on it and still looked presentable. He cleaned it up and put it in the SHOWROOM along with his new Japanese cars and trucks.

This pickup, with the mileage prominantly displayed, sold more vehicles than any of his salesmen. This type of pubilicy might have given root to the “myth”. The pickup in question had been used in courier delivery service, and had been meticulously maintained by its owner.

I think the myth is not nor has never been a myth. It was made up by people who HATE Toyota, Nissan, Honda…etc…So that they can then PROVE that this myth is a lie…and that the Japanese vehicles have the same problems the domestics do. It’s a trick that Rush Limbaugh has MASTERED.

Does Japanese law still restrict the ownership of cars beyond 100,000km. There were strict and expensive recertification requirements on automobiles in Japan when they passed the 100,000km mark. That law made Japanese used engines a commonly exported part. If a car was in a collision with 80,000km the recertificantion costs put the car into the totaled category even if the damage was relatively minor. The Japanese government has protected their industries in many ways. The restrictions on an American car being sold in Japan were quite excessive in 1970.

Just speaking for myself, I’ve seen a lot of Asian cars enter the shop with a 100k, 150k, 200k miles on them with the owners swearing on the mountain that the car has never needed anything and that no repairs have ever been done other than fluids and filters.

The reality was that in the case of the first scenario they have been driving around blissfully unaware their car needed this, that, and the other; sometimes to the point of being unsafe.
With the second scenario, further investigation often shows that repairs have been done; verified by the type of part in place, perusing the warranty and service files, and so on.

Call it amnesia, selective memory, or what have you and this condition even afflicted a fellow mechanic I worked with; a guy who worked on Hondas, loved them to the nth degree, and personally owned 2 of them. We had some back and forth on this issue but in a good natured way. When pinned down though, he had no answer.

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My experience has been almost the exact opposite. My brother-in-law who use to LOVE his Fords would praise his Fords up and down. Yet when we compared how much money he had to spend on his F-150…and his wifes two Taurus’s…they were THOUSANDS more then any of my vehicle’s or my wifes Accords. We he bought a bigger boat and could no longer tow it without an 18 wheeler…he got rid of his F-150 and bought a Honda Element…and my wife talked her sister into buying something other then a Taurus…100k miles later and he’s no longer a Ford man. He was amazed that he didn’t have to spend even one day at the dealer for warranty issues. He’s a couple thousand in the black now compared to the Fords he owned. He’s like me…does all his own PM. That didn’t change because he bought a Toyota or Honda. But for those 20+ years when he was a diehard Ford man…he had blinders on. It seemed like everytime my sister called her sister…one of the vehicles was being worked on.

That’s just ONE example…I have many many more.

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I could post many examples also with things going the other way and judging by the number of Asian car complaints on this forum I’d say that not everyone is thrilled with their automotive purchase.

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You’re not looking at the same posts I am.

Personal experience is going to be a persons biggest influence. I for one have had enough personal experience with GM. It’s not like myself or my relatives started buy Toyota’s/Honda’s or Nissan’s when we first started to drive. They were barely in existence back in the 70’s. It took me a decade to see the light…my brother-in-law two decades…my brother almost the same. I can give example after example of people ranging in age from mid-40’s to mid 80’s who all use to be die-hard GM/Ford or Chryco fans…and now wouldn’t touch…and all glad they did.

Your experience is obviously different. Not saying your wrong. But I’m NOT wrong either. Just different experiences to have different opinions.

I have a 2005 Honda Accord with 96,000 and I have changed oil, filters, tires, brakes, and noting else. I’m due for a timing belt this summer, but that is maintenance, not repairs.

Since we own two Toyotas, a 2003 4Runner and a 2011 Sienna, I hope that this is not a myth. I did have real problems with the 4Runner when we bought it as a brand new vehicle. There was a chirping under the hood. The dealer replaced the serpentine belt and the chirp went away for 3 days and then came.back. A second belt was installed with the same results. A third belt was installed and installed improperly and the improperly installed belt pulled out the crankshaft oil seal. The dealership said that they would put the best technician on the vehicle. The oil seal was replaced and a new belt installed. Three days later, the chirp reappeared. This time, I returned and told them that they had two choices: 1) buy the vehicle back; 2) fix the vehicle, but give us a loaner to drive while it was being repaired. If this repair didn’t solve the problem, then under the lemon law the dealer would buy it back and we would buy another make. The dealer fixed it. It was a weak spring in the belt tensioner. I haven’t had a problem since that time, but I never returned to the dealer. When I bought the Sienna, a new dealer opened up in my community. I have driven it 28,000 miles with no problems. However, I owned a 2000 Ford Windstar and a 2006 Chevrolet Uplander which also were reliable. I sold the Uplander (at great family discount) to my son who needed a better vehicle and would have replaced it with another GM minivan, but GM quit making minivans.
For me, the quality of service that I get from the dealer is important. The Chevrolet dealer where I bought the Uplander is less than a mile from where I live and the service I received was excellent. The Toyota dealer where I bought the 4Runner is about 20 miles away and I will never go back. The Toyota dealer where I bought the Sienna is about a mile and a half from my house and the service so far has been outstanding. When the Sienna warranty expires, it will be a toss-up between returning to the dealer for service or going to my independent shop.