The myth of maintenance free Japanese cars (...that go to 200k with just gas, tires, and oil)

[Whitey]

I think the idea was to save on manufacturing costs, but I’ve always considered a timing belt not a big deal. I do mine every 90,000 miles, replacing the water pump with every other timing belt and it’s never cost more than $500 with the water pump. The last time I hired someone just to do the belt and tension pully it was less than $400.

There is something to be said for prophylactically replacing the water pump every 180,000 miles, before it malfunctions and leads to an overhead engine. I’d be tempted to do it even if my car didn’t have a timing belt.

Where timing belt replacement gets really expensive is on transverse mounted V-6 engines, especially on a minivan. On an I-4 engine, it ain’t no thang; it’s just basic maintenance.

[db4690]

Good grief . . .

We’ve owned many Toyotas over the years, and many of them had timing belts

My Camry has a timing belt, and it’s only due every 8 or 9 years. It’s not that big of a deal, when you think of it in those terms.

@Triedaq

Asian makes weren’t the only cars that used timing belts.

Not at all . . . some european and american engines also used timing belts

@common_sense_answer

If they (any manufacturer) was still using timing belts in the 2005 model-year then that’s a repair in my book and caused in part by not enough research prior to purchase.

I do plenty of research prior to purchasing a car. I always pay money to log on to the manufacturer’s websites, so that I can see all the tsbs, recalls, etc. that apply to whatever I’m considering. So I certainly knew my Toyota used a timing belt. Yet I still chose to buy.

I consider a timing belt replacement that is due by time and/or mileage to be regularly scheduled maintenance. I always have, and always will

[galant]

My last Asian car with a timing belt was a 1995 Mitsubishi Galant. The 2005 Camry had the 4 cylinder with a chain, The V6 that @db4690 has, has a timing belt. He didn’t buy the I4 because they are known to have loose cylinder head bolts. Mine survived to 180+K miles but the thought always bugged me. Currently we own 3 Asian/Hyundai cars, all 4 cylinder with a chain. Now the chain could break too.

My point is that I would not make the belt or chain issue be the primary decision maker on what car I buy but all other things being equal I would rather have a chain.

Changing the belt is a known event, call it maintenance or repair, I don’t care. When you have other stuff go wrong with the car at random times, that gets annoying.

[Docnick]

CHEAP and quiet. Let the owner take care of the replacement. My last car with a timing belt was a1977 Dodge (Mitsubishi) Colt. This car had rear wheel drive, thus changing the belt was relatively easy.

With respect to families owning multiple dealerships, our Toyota dealer, who gives good service, is owned by the same family that owns a major Chevrolet dealership and gives less than sterling service. GM pushes them to sell cars while Toyota makes them present the whole package of sales and service. They (GM) screwed up the ignition key recall for instance.

[Marnet]

“Brainwashed toaster hostages don’t even mentally count $1000 repair every 80k miles or whatever.”

Gee, let’s see.
1973 Toyota Corolla: 16 yrs/168k miles repairs were one wheel bearing and toward the end needed cylinders rebored.

1987 Oldsmobile Ciera: 20 yrs/187k miles repair file was so thick it needed two file folders. While under warranty needed to replace both front and rear mainseals, transmission seal (which required elevating to corporate level), failing fuel pump, both headlight seal beams. By the time I retired the car it needed (along with many other things I don’t recall) three fuel pumps with the third beginning to fail, a rebuilt transmission, head gasket, water pump, two alternators, etc.

2007 Chevy Impala: 7 yrs/54k miles while still under warranty needed among other things over a dozen tries to fix multiple electrical gremlins, alternator replaced, power steering pump and rack replaced, shift interlock replaced twice and it was failing a third time when I traded in the car, fuel pump replaced, wheel bearing, transmission cooling lines replaced and beginning to fail a second time, water pump replaced, etc. etc.

2014 Toyota Camry: 4.5 years/40k miles so far has only needed a software flash update for the transmission.

Only thing I’ve been hostage to was the comfort for me of GM cars but I’ve happily traded for marginally less comfort and extremely better reliability of Toyota. And, no, it doesn’t look like a toaster.

[db4690]

Here’s some food for thought . . .

My 2005 Camry has the 1MZ-FE V6, which has a timing belt, and I replaced it at the 9 year mark, as per the factory service schedule. It hasn’t needed a lot of repairs over the years. I recently replaced the struts, because they were wet, not because the ride was sloppy. There was no noticeable improvement in ride quality after the new KYT strut-plus assemblies were installed. Like I said, the originals still were doing their job, but they were wet. I had a 4-wheel steering alignment performed afterwards

My brother’s 2008 Highlander has the 2GR-FE V6, which is the successor to the 1MZ-FE and 3MZ-FE, and it has a timing chain. This was the 5th year that the engine had been around, so you’d think it would have been trouble-free by now. Not so. It’s had numerous engine oil leaks over the years. The alternator and water pump also failed within the last year or two. Both of which were very major repairs. Parts only, as I did the labor in my driveway. Trust me, the labor costs would have been substantial.

The 2005 Camry is still running on the original alternator. I did the water pump along with the timing belt, ALL of the seals, tensioner, idler, accessory drive belts, etc. at the 9 year mark. I ordered the complete AISIN kit before I even removed the timing covers, so it wasn’t a big deal when I discovered the water pump was indeed crusty, as I already had all the parts on hand.

Also, the clear coat is failing on the 2008 Highlander, in spite of the fact it’s been washed and waxed every few months since new. No such problem on the 2005 Camry. The Camry was built in Kentucky, whereas the Highlander was built in Japan, if that matters to anybody

[Docnick]

Yes, Toyotas don’t need a lot of repairs. Our 2007 Corolla had had the serpentine belt replaced ($42) because it showed tiny cracks. Also the heat shield worked itself loose driving on unplowed streets last winter; Repair cost $61. The only other “repair” was front brakes at $400 because the pads were getting thin (too much mountain driving) and I wanted both pads and rotors (best quality) done at the same time.

EVERYTHING ELSE on the car is original. With winter tires on 6 months of the year we still have the original tires.

At this mileage, by contrast, our Dodge Dart (1965) had 2 sets of front brakes, drive shaft U joints (warranty) torsion bars, lower ball joints, rebuilt carb, rebuilt starter, ignition switch, heat riser valve, new brake drums, new rad hoses, new battery, new idler arm, new master cylinder, and complete paint job and rust repair

[VOLVO-V70]

@Docnick

With winter tires on 6 months of the year we still have the original tires.

I hope you don’t plan on putting them back on . Tires need replaced by time as much as wear .

[common-sense-answer]

@db4690

Also, the clear coat is failing on the 2008 Highlander, in spite of the fact it’s been washed and waxed every few months since new. No such problem on the 2005 Camry. The Camry was built in Kentucky, whereas the Highlander was built in Japan, if that matters to anybody

It doesn’t matter to me. I’ve got no plans on buying an Asian car. I do go through Bowling Green a couple times a year, on my way to the suncoast and back, though, ha, ha.

What does matter is that my old consumer car guides (I kept after cancelling my subscription) that every one thinks are greatest thing since sliced bread does not tip me off to any meaningful difference in reliability between the two vehicles.

They both got the highest ratings, despite one being reasonably reliable and the other a veritable POS needing major repairs. That’s why I could never use them and I cancelled.

I get it. This story is anecdotal, as are the others above. I don’t go by the silly survey results that magnify beyond usefulness any perceived issues to sell magazines and I don’t go by anecdotal evidence.

This whole discussion can go on forever without any conclusion.

I’m not changing my theory that all leading car manufacturers now make very highly reliable models, some better than others.

I do my homework before purchasing to be sure the model I have in my sights does not have any bad character flaws.
CSA

[common-sense-answer]

@Docnick

At this mileage, by contrast, our Dodge Dart (1965) had 2 sets of front brakes, drive shaft U joints (warranty) torsion bars, lower ball joints, rebuilt carb, rebuilt starter, ignition switch, heat riser valve, new brake drums, new rad hoses, new battery, new idler arm, new master cylinder, and complete paint job and rust repair

Yow! that car was a current model when I was junior in high school, 54 model-years ago!!

That 07 is 12 model-years old!

That’s how rumors get started. Come to think of it, that’s how myths are born! Thank you.
CSA

[db4690]

@common_sense_answer

I do my homework before purchasing to be sure the model I have in my sights does not have any bad character flaws.

So do I, as I’ve made abundantly clear

As I said, I actually PAY to log onto the manufacturer’s websites, to get access to ALL of the available information. I doubt many consumers go to such lengths

My Camry doesn’t have any bad character flaws . . . that is a fact, as far as I’m concerned

@common_sense_answer

This whole discussion can go on forever without any conclusion.

Sounds good to me . . . you’re not going to make me think my car is a dud, no matter how hard you try, no matter how right you know you are

right back at you

[Mustangman]

@common_sense_answer

I do go through Bowling Green a couple times a year,

Assuming you mean Bowling Green KY and not Ohio, wave at the Corvette plant as you go by! The Toyota plant is in Georgetown KY, MUCH closer to Cincinnati than Nashville.

[common-sense-answer]

@db4690

Sounds good to me . . . you’re not going to make me think my car is a dud, no matter how hard you try, no matter how right you know you are

right back at you

@common_sense_answer

I’m not changing my theory that all leading car manufacturers now make very highly reliable models, some better than others.

I’m not discounting what you have said.
I quoted myself agreeing with you db. All leading manufacturers make them and you found a model from your preferred manufacturer.

I too, check out TSBs and other sources before purchase. I can afford nearly any new car of choice, but I have been buying used or slightly used for about 25 years now. I get the same results with used as with new, but save thousands and thousands of bucks.

I like vehicles with a track record and I like domestic brands.
CSA

[VOLVO-V70]

Docnick comparing a 1965 anything to a 2007 is a little silly.

[db4690]

@common_sense_answer

I have been buying used or slightly used for about 25 years now. I get the same results with used as with new, but save thousands and thousands of bucks.

I don’t recall saying I bought new cars

Just thought I’d mention I’d mention that

As for domestic brands . . . if I was considering a full sized truck, Ford and Chevy would be high on the list of contenders, but it’s a moot point, because I’m not in the market for that particular kind of vehicle, not at this point in my life

I was seriously considering a Ford Fusion for my mom, just a few years back. 2014 model, I believe. I’d done my usual exhaustive research, and didn’t come across anything too concerning, so we headed to a Ford dealer to test drive one.

The car looked very nice, and handled well. It was nicely equipped and I rather liked the interior layout.

However . . . the driver’s seat was uncomfortable. It felt as if I was sitting in a hole, no matter how I adjusted it. We had to scratch the Fusion off the list. This particular one was a highly optioned model, not a strippo, for what it’s worth. I mentioned that, because some on this forum have mentioned that the upscale models often have superior seats. Assuming the logic is sound, that would mean if the higher level model had uncomfortable seats, then it’s highly likely all of the seats for that entire model would also be uncomfortable. It’s subjective, though, as a seat that’s torture for me might be very pleasant for another person

We then drove a 2014 Civic, everybody really liked it, and the seats were comfortable. It’s made in Canada. I wasn’t aware Honda had factories in Canada, until I saw the sticker on the car.

I’ll buy whatever suits our needs the best, whether it’s domestic or otherwise.

The next car might very well be domestic, but it has to be the best suited for my needs and wants. it has to prove itself, so to speak.

I take the same approach to my tools at work. I like to buy made in USA, but only if it’s the best. In many cases, the american produced stuff is the best, but not always. Some of my favorite front end tools are made in Canada, for example. They have proven themselves superior, time and time again.

[common-sense-answer]

I like your thought process.

I’m a retired guy and I just hit 70 birthday candles this past week and went on Social Security (I kicked the can down the road as far as I could). It’s “extra income.” I’m just pointing out that I can afford new cars and I very well could buy one, but…

… I love the heck out of finding a deal on used or slightly used cars and get personal satisfaction from it. That little old Grand Prix pic in the corner is my daily driver. It runs to FL and back fall and spring, 3,000 miles round trip, no fluids consumed, 30 mph, fun to drive around. I hunted for a GP bought it 3 years ago (104,700 miles) locally off Craig’s List for $4300.

I put on 2 new tires, iridium spark plugs, and a battery upon purchase. I put 4 brake rotors on it & ceramic pads for $200 in the driveway. Didn’t need them, but almost as easy as thoroughly checking. That’s it.

New? Used? Asian? Domestic? Done right (with a little homework, as you and I do) it’s all good… Whatever floats one’s boat.
CSA

[bing]

Reluctantly commenting. I’ve been kind of noting the brand of trucks in use around here and just from my observation, it seems like trucks that are really used for heavy duty, seem to be Fords. I mean the trucks that haul stuff. And really old Internationals that look like they are ready to fall apart but still get the job done. I’ve never owned a Ford or a truck, but I think if I were to buy one, I’d really need to consider a Ford.

Back in the 60’s, the Ford seats seemed to fit me better than the other two main brands. The seats in that 61 Merc. or the boss’s 65 Ford wagon, fit me fine. The boss’s wife had an Imperial of that vintage and I didn’t like the seats at all. Our Chevy seats were OK but I really like the fit of the Fords the best. This was before power seats so I don’t really have much of a problem with any of them now but I do insist on power seats.

Yes, endless discussion but I wouldn’t compare my 68 Dodge Dart with current production models or at least models of the last ten years. Chryslers back then were fairly dependable and we had a 66, 68, 70, etc. with no big issues. Starting around 78, everything changed and it was all down hill and now they are Fiats. We should at least compare decade to decade anyway.

Duct tape back on.

[db4690]

@common_sense_answer

That little old Grand Prix pic in the corner is my daily driver.

3.8 liter V6 . . . ?

One of GM’s better engines, by all accounts

[NYBo]

[common-sense-answer]

@db4690

3.8 liter V6 . . . ?

One of GM’s better engines, by all accounts

Yes, naturally aspirated (KISS!), as I was seeking in my search. I presently own three 3.8L GM cars, by choice.
CSA