oh. please don t close it til @bing gets back online. I m really interested in his view/ response, @cdaquila
general discussion is to discuss the issues of the day, not necessarily cars, right?
I would like that (closure) left to the independent judgement of @cdaquila . Anyone who dislikes the continuation of a thread is more then welcome to just skip over that topic. Heck, we run threads on every topic in “car land” known to man and digress about as far one can from the original topic. I have the idea that “Cartalk” in general can easily emulate what went on with our founders, the Tappet Bros. who frequently got off topic while talking with guests. Humor is an integral part of this forum as well as the ability to laugh at ones self . It’s time for those who profess to be libertarians to do just that in this thread.
Personally, I feel that governing mainly from an economic view and not primarily a scientific one does little to foster the existence of the human race. Putting everything in terms of dollars and cents may work for economic theory but IMO, it is “laughable” when it’s applied to real life. Limited govt. sounds good in theory but as world grows in it’s complexity, it’s (govt.) role does as well in order to protect our personal freedoms. Proctor and Gamble isn’t of a mind to.
Actually, general discussion is mostly intended to be general discussion of car issues, not the model of “I have car question X, can you please help me” in Repair and Maintenance. I’m not sure whether I should have let this one go, but I did. And @wesw, I don’t plan to close it if you avoid lashing out at people and stick to the substance.
@cdaquila, the topic index says of general discussion, your forum to discuss all the issues of the day
@wesw, yes, but in practice the subject matter has tended toward what I described above. Others can corroborate.
no need to corroborate, I don t doubt your veracity
Yeah I drank the Kool Aide too, but no point in endless debate, you’ll believe what you want to believe. I believe though the Ayers connection was far more than just being on the same committee, but rather a long term association, especially since one of the economic advisors was a former Underground member. These people are truly scary. Ayers was a self-professed communist and recently said he hasn’t changed his views at all just his tactics. So he is working with the government to change it rather than with the violence and bombs of his youth.
I’m done, back to cars. Time to change oil, shampoo interiors, wash cars and rotate tires.
I’m glad we can agree on a few things, like condemning Ayers’ actions. 
We really aren’t that far away from a libertarian police force when it’s comes to cars. The market cannot support the personal preference of the Crown Victoria, so now we have the alternatives. That’s the market speaking for alternative cars that all the cops I have talked to, don’t want. The exception is the SUVs when some departments replaced the CV with the Explorers. Now,if this were a central govt. endeavor, to heck with the market, we get the govt. over paying for the cars that cops really want and need. 
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Re 42% taxes, as a self employed business owner I paid 15%+ FICA tax plus the 28%+/- standard tax rate as I recall. I do recall that it occurred to me on occasion that after state income taxes and sales tax I had to earn $2 to spend and enjoy $1. And when I hear conservatives howling and ranting against the tax rate I can only tell them that they need to consider the fact that $billionaires pay 1/3 the tax rate that they pay. Small business owners and successful professionals are carrying the load for the wealthy who pay 15% capital gains and no FICA.
@"Rod Knox" - And that is only the tip of the iceberg for Billionaires. There are tax deductions that you can I can’t take.
Small business owners and successful professionals are carrying the load for the wealthy who pay 15% capital gains and no FICA.
That’s why CEO’s in major corporations get MOST of their salary in guaranteed stock options. They git a minimum portion in salary (taxed at the highest tax rate). The rest in stock options taxed at 15% capital gains.
Yes, @MikeinnNH. But that fact is overlooked and/or downplayed by the right wing media.