Interesting discussion here. I am enjoying the back-and-forth. I believe that random DUI checks are a violation of my 4th amendment. I also think that restricting a class of legal adults that can vote and serve in the military from drinking until age 21 is a violation of their rights. But none of them have objected and taken it to court so there it stands.
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Of course not. DUI stops don’t address the real problem for repeat offenders, which is alcoholism. Until we do something about their disease, the situation won’t improve. It seems a lot less expensive to deal with the disease than to lock them in jail. Prison is about the most expensive way to deal with crime. Criminal acts that occur as a result of a disease, like alcoholism or mental illness, are better handled by dealing with the problem, not the symptom.
Plus, let us not forget that license suspension is essentially meaningless for the folks who will then proceed to drive–sans license–in the hope that they don’t get pulled-over.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but it should be pointed out that not all DUI offenders are alcoholics. Serial offenders maybe, but there are plenty of people out there who aren’t alcoholics but who had a little too much at a restaurant and decided to drive.
That’s not a medical condition (unless you consider stupidity to be a mental illness) and there’s not really a good way to reliably prevent that kind of thing from happening beyond making people extra careful about how much they’re drinking while out because of the consequences if they screw up and drink too much.
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Oh boy. I have a pocket copy of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. It’s good reading from time to time. More interesting though is reading of the arguments made by the various framers and their concerns looking forward a couple hundred years of what could happen. They were truly correct to be concerned. The result is a document that has promoted freedom and liberty and we should not so easily set the principles aside. In my view.
We have a right to protect ourselves, family and property. We have a right against unreasonable searches and seizures of our property. It’s called probable cause. Road blocks in Minnesota were deemed unconstitutional just because of that. Of course there would be more efficient methods to catch drunk drivers, but at what cost? We should learn to live with the drunks and criminals that get through the system for the sake of liberty. That’s the price we pay. I noticed a guy last night with a large tattoo on his bare leg. Looking closer it was the fallen soldier symbol with the boots, rifle, and helmet. Many thousands have died to protect that Constitution and we should honor that, including not allowing three populous cities to decide our elections.
Over and out. Comrade Bing signing off.
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I do not doubt that a serial DUI offender would rate as an alcoholic, or one that does not learn as quickly as one should. Back in psychology class there were 3 definitions at the time, one was anyone who has more than 3 drinks 4 times a year, one that one uses alcohol as a reaction to stress, one that a person can not go 72 hours without a drink. So the definition is not even clear cut.
Heh heh. That reminded me. Many moons ago some folks at work came up with a computer program to determine life span versus risks. One of the questions was how many drinks you have a month. I guess I answered one. Then another question was how many miles were driven per month and I guess I answered 3000. My life span was judged to be about 35 years based on those two questions since I was likely to drive while I had a drink. They were off at least 35 years now and hoping for a few more. What they didn’t ask was if I ever drove after having a drink, and my answer would have been no. Am I guilty of eating in the car, driving with a cold or flu, thinking about issues, working that dang touch screen, driving with four hours sleep, etc. etc. Yeah but I’m careful when I know I’m challenged. Life is not black and white so just live with it. I’m more worried about lunatics on the road than drunks.
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If more than 3 drinks 4 times a year makes an alcoholic I’ve been one since I was 13 or 14. Luckily as hard as they’ve tried they’ve never caught with me with a blood alcohol level above 0.0.
In my area road blocks do seem to be more for harassment than stopping drunk drivers but they do often find a drunk behind the wheel.
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I suppose I was ten or 12 and cutting the grass at my Grandpa’s house. I found a bottle in the garage and took a swig. I didn’t like it and still don’t.
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Don’t even get me started on Probable Cause… Or the artful manufacture thereof. They aren’t playing fair these days kids, I promise.
I’d be interested to know when that was, and what they were basing it on. To me, it sounds like a severe misunderstanding of the DSM-IV/V criteria for alcohol use disorder. By the metric your psychology teacher used, the entire country of France is inflicted with raging alcoholism. And Germany is just plain lost. 
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It seems to be an acquired taste @bing and some of us acquire it quicker than others. But it never became a problem for me while for quite a few it is a lifetime struggle.
I sometimes have a beer when I eat out and it has never seemed to be a problem to drive home but I saw two men in their 20s who drove up in street rods and sat behind me this past Saturday. One finished a pitcher and ordered another while his friend drank 5 Margaritas before their meals were served and they order more beer and another drink before I left. I can’t imagine anyone being able to drive after that much booze. And I was amazed that neither of them got up to go to the mens’ room.
Germany is OK… as one German told me, beer is not alcohol, beer is food! 
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I recall reading some reports of Australian law enforcement’s leniency with drivers who have had a few brews and it’s amazing what they actually put on the books.
Maybe Grandpa repurposed the empty bottle to store paint thinner.
I think all three of your definitions are lacking. The following from Wikipedia makes more sense to me:
Alcoholism, also known as alcohol use disorder (AUD), is a broad term for any drinking of alcohol that results in mental or physical health problems. The disorder was previously divided into two types: alcohol abuse and alcohol dependence. In a medical context, alcoholism is said to exist when two or more of the following conditions are present: a person drinks large amounts of alcohol over a long time period, has difficulty cutting down, acquiring and drinking alcohol takes up a great deal of time, alcohol is strongly desired, usage results in not fulfilling responsibilities, usage results in social problems, usage results in health problems, usage results in risky situations, withdrawal occurs when stopping, and alcohol tolerance has occurred with use. Risky situations include drinking and driving or having unsafe sex, among other things. Alcohol use can affect all parts of the body, but it particularly affects the brain, heart, liver, pancreas and immune system.
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Even that definition is a bit over-broad because it does not define “health problems.” Have 1 beer every night with dinner and you are not by anyone’s measure (except maybe a few folks in Utah 
) an alcoholic. But unless you up your exercise regimen, you will put on a few extra pounds, and that’s a health problem.
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Late 70’s psychology class definitions
I successfully completed Psych 101 in 1973. Same thing. In the late 1970s DUI became a heinous crime due to legislation imposed by efforts of ‘Mothers Against Drunk Driving’ (MADD). Which I consider a noble cause. Prior to that DUI was pretty much given a pass barring an accident resulting in property damage, injury, or fatality. Legislation created significant $$$ in fines. When potential $$$ are involved municipalities, counties, and states start enforcing the laws.
I hear ya! Worked in the restaurant biz to pay for college, alcoholics all of us I suppose, had a few beers after work, rainy night doing the 15 mile drive to my home in the boonies with wood burning heat in southern IL, SIU. So this guy was following me, waving the search light on the left side of the car. I finally pulled over got out of the car, got drenching wet to go see what this guy wanted. It was a police man, asked me where I lived, a couple of miles up the road I said, he said you were weaving, I said I did not know what was happening with a car following me waving a light at me, he said are you ok to drive home? Yes I said I will be fine, He said you should drive a little slower as you could hit a deer and my lights are broken, He followed me home to make sure I made it there safely, Pulled in my drive and he drove off. AH, the good old days. Reminds me of a couple of friends, pretty ladies, got pulled over for bad driving, she falls out of the door drunk when pulled over, officer says your friend is going to have to drive, the friend, she falls over getting out of the car, he let them drive off but followed them home also!