Which FRAM, most of the test out there are using the better FRAM models, and yes they do well… 2 filters can flow the same amount, and filter out the same microns, but one can hold more filtered material before clogging up and by passing the filter than the other one due to the amount of material used, less pleats (material) and length equals less room for max dirt collected…
You can have 2 fishing nets, both with 1" mesh size holes and both 10’ tall, but one is 20’ long and the other one is 30’ long, the 30’ long fishing net is capable of catching more fish, but they both will stop the same size fish from getting past the net…
This is a great discussion and good points from either side. davesmopar has a good point about specs vs performance and MikeinNH has an excellent point about specs vs actual application needs.
I think Mike’s example can be summed up by the old saying- perfection is the enemy of good enough.
In the fishing net example- a 30’ long net will most certainly out fish the 20’ net…if it is left in the water long enough to make a difference.
Having more filter media than your competitors only matters if the amount they normally have is not enough for the time it is in service. If I change filters well before the 20’ net is full, then having 30’ looks good on paper but does nothing to improve performance in application.
In reality, that would be hurting the company selling filters with more filter material since it costs more but has no actual advantage in real life use. (the analogy Mike used)
Agreed, not disputing anything Mike has said, and dang it TT, you stepped in and made good sense also…
I remember reading many years ago that oil filters started to by pass around 2,000 to 2,500 on a then 3,000 mile oil change, so a bigger “net” would be better in that case, and sadly that is when I was testing the filters lol…
But as they say, times have changed and with almost everything running full synthetic oils, I guess it doesn’t matter as much as it used to…
But I wish someone would run a controlled test to see how oil filters hold up in the long run (before by passing), they may have, I just haven’t found it yet…
And yes, I enjoyed the discussion, but my head is starting to hurt from thinking now… lol
On another note, I bought the aluminum Lexus oil filter cap to replace the crack prone plastic Toyota oil filter cap for my truck… Plus now if something happens to the cap (housing), I will have a spare just in case…
With todays toilet paper, I see it dissolving and eventually clogging up oil ports… Maybe with the “John Wayne” commercial single ply toilet paper it might not be as bad, but put Charmin or Angle Soft in their and it’s a time bomb waiting to clog oil passages up, or running through the bearings and killing them…
Some tech, VDC, was better. I miss CRT TVs, and cars with real dashboards with knobs and switches.
Peoples’ attitudes about life were better back then: More content with what they had, not always focused on what someone else had, and trying to obtain it or out-do them.
I’d give anything also to live in the pre-’social’ media era.
How did an OP on a cabin air filter become a useless rant against FRAM and a conversation about oil filters. Every after market cabin air filter I’ve ever seen has been junk. My solution was to pick up a lifetime KN filter. Blow it out twice and year and done.
This is key- empirical evidence trumps speculation. The problem is the number of variables that can affect results. So many different use cases, different engine designs that can affect oil longevity, etc that would make using the results still questionable for individual reasons. The time and cost to run something like this makes it prime for those with a vested interest in the results. So then you have to question the motivation behind the test protocol and results…
I did the same as you, cut open a few spin on filters to see for myself and back then, did not see anything that concerned me so I just kept on keeping on with my preferred regimen.
Things have changed quite a bit over the years. A lot less blowby in engines, much cleaner running and they get to temp much faster. In those ways, the pollution of the oil is much slower to accumulate but the demands on the oil have gone up at the same time.
I’m NOT arguing Dave either. He’s made good valid points. And he is one member in this forum who’s opinion I truly respect. He’s probably forgotten more about wrenching then I ever knew. I’m giving a different point of view is all.
You do realize you can just blow out any air filter and or cabin air filter also most of the time… I finally blew out the C.A.F. in my 06 Corolla once after it finally stopped up, good as new and that was with over 150,000 miles on it and the car, never ever changed out one of my C.A.F’s… If lucky, my vehicles engine air filters get changed out maybe once and they all have well over 100K miles on them… My 2023 trucks air and cabin filters will only get changed out until warranty is up… Then back to the air hose… lol
Well yeah you can blow your filters out like Kelsey at the corner gas station used to do but for a cabin filter, doesn’t mean you blew away that stuff growing on them. My honda cabin filter is about $25 on line, but still a minimal 20,000 mile cost.
Like I said, I’ve watched the comparisons and cut aways etc. I just concluded that the people spending the most time are the ones that make the cars. Then again longevity may have less to do with the brand filter or oil, but just the fact that it was changed.
Still though I used to use Penzz in everything. Then saw the light and wouldn’t even use it in my lawn mower now. Just me after seeing inside a few engines that were meticulously maintained.
